3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[Oldfordman]

tonyclifton wrote:

I basically want to be able to run a couple extension cords and power strips for lights and small appliances. I was an industrial electrician so am familiar with the issues around startup load, current draw limitations, etc.

I made a pigtail for mine. An RV 30 amp plug (from Home Depot) on one end of a 3' length of 10/3 SO cord and a 4" square utility box with two 20 amp duplex outlets in it, allows me to plug in 4 extension cords with a combined draw of 30 amps. To make it easier for my circumstances I also have a 30' extension cord (10/3 SO) with the 30 amp RV "fittings" on each end. I can run my generator in my garden shed (doors open) and run a single extension into the house. From there I can branch out to the furnace, microwave, TV (of course) and that leaves me one for the coffee pot.

[tonyclifton]

Agreed MrWizard. Thanks for clarifying that. I would prefer to use it the way you recommended.

[MrWizard]

ok (1) 20 amp recpticle

(1) 30amp RV recpitcle, and (1) twist lock 220 volt plug

yes you can use the twist lock 14amps per leg

or use the 30 amp RV recp into a 4 way gang box and have 30 amps into the box from ONE feed, easier to USE than , trying to balance the load on the split box from the 220 feed

[tonyclifton]

Thanks, Joel. That simplifies things. I can deal with that!

[joelabq]

tonyclifton wrote:
New user here. This forum rocks! I am poised to buy the Champion C46540 for rare emergency homeowner use but have a couple questions. I have seen references to answers already posted, but I have read page after page and can't seem to find the actual post!

For now my intended use is just powering a few 120v necessity devices and not fooling with my 220v appliances (although I will revisit that as my knowledge of doing it increases). I basically want to be able to run a couple extension cords and power strips for lights and small appliances. I was an industrial electrician so am familiar with the issues around startup load, current draw limitations, etc.

This unit has the power I want but I only see that single 120v outlet. I don't see how I can utilize more than 20 amps out of it. Can I wire up a pigtail from the 220v RV outlet and split it into two 120v sockets in a junction box? If so, how much current draw could each outlet provide. I realize I would need to balance the load across each leg if I did that.

Is the C46535 still available, and is it a better choice? The Champion website shows it already on wheels, and possibly has better outlets for my expected usage. But I don't see it at partsamerica!

How do I get this from an Advance Auto retail store? I see an old post saying they were available in Richmond but I am in Charlottesville and the store here had no idea. The guy seemed clueless.

Thanks!

Tony

The RV Outlet is 120v 30amp, not 220v.

Joel

[tonyclifton]

New user here. This forum rocks! I am poised to buy the Champion C46540 for rare emergency homeowner use but have a couple questions. I have seen references to answers already posted, but I have read page after page and can't seem to find the actual post!

For now my intended use is just powering a few 120v necessity devices and not fooling with my 220v appliances (although I will revisit that as my knowledge of doing it increases). I basically want to be able to run a couple extension cords and power strips for lights and small appliances. I was an industrial electrician so am familiar with the issues around startup load, current draw limitations, etc.

This unit has the power I want but I only see that single 120v outlet. I don't see how I can utilize more than 20 amps out of it. Can I wire up a pigtail from the 220v RV outlet and split it into two 120v sockets in a junction box? If so, how much current draw could each outlet provide. I realize I would need to balance the load across each leg if I did that.

Is the C46535 still available, and is it a better choice? The Champion website shows it already on wheels, and possibly has better outlets for my expected usage. But I don't see it at partsamerica!

How do I get this from an Advance Auto retail store? I see an old post saying they were available in Richmond but I am in Charlottesville and the store here had no idea. The guy seemed clueless.

Thanks!

Tony

[professor95]

I was waiting to get one based on the rumor that a more quiet model was on the horizon

Awa yes, the quite model!

I too am wondering what happened. The last discussion I had with my "inside man" indicated that they should appear sometime in January. Right now, it does not look like that benchmark has been reached.

But, the good news from Champion is that they intend on releasing a kit composed of sound reduction panels that fit current models "sometime" this Spring. I am sure they will be welcomed.

Once again, if I hear anything definite one way or the other I will post it to the forum.

[ib516]

I also want to pass along a "Thanks". I have an ELM 3000 (one of the first ones - red in color) and it still runs great, and powers everything I ask it to. In hot weather, it does like to use a little more oil than I'd like, but I plan on moving up a viscosity grade to see if that slows consumption. It'll use 100-200mL (about 2/10 of a "quart" for you non-metric types) when it is run in hot weather running my A/C for 3 hrs or so. My BIL bought the Champion model with the 30A RV plug, and his came with a readable manual (no written in "Chinglish" like mine is), and it says to use SAE 40 or even SAE 50 in hot weather. I had synthetic 10w30 in mine. It also has different spark plug specs for different weather.

[phil-am]

Also, I just wanted to say "thank you" to all who have contributed to this thread. It's a massive and daunting task getting through it all, but I learned more about generators reading this thread than I have during my entire life. It sure would be a lot easier if this forum had a "search within thread" option though.. 😛

[phil-am]

P.J wrote:
I just about tripped over a Champion (RV model) generator at my local Tractor Supply store today $399.99!

I feel like a pretty smart fellow, (along with most others here) I only paid like $364.00 shipped.:B

I got mine at Tractor Supply and the price tag was $399 but when checking out, I found it was on sale for $349 although there was NO mention of that anywhere. Some people who are interested in the Champion who can't get it in their area, like me, might want to ask the clerk at Tractor Supply what the actual price is. When I called them, they even quoted $399 but the register showed $50 off sale so you might ask them to double check instead of just reading off the price tag. There are Tractor Supply stores all over the midwest, but no Kragen Checkers or Schucks. Advance Auto is here but can't get them in their stores despite being part of the same conglomerate. The only other place I know of that stocks them in this part of the country is Cabela's, but their retail stores are few and far between.

I was waiting to get one based on the rumor that a more quiet model was on the horizon, but when I saw the approaching ice storm in the news, I decided right then and there to run to Tractor Supply and grab one. I lamented that I was going to have to pay $399+tax=$423 instead of $362 shipped, but in the end it worked out to $370ish because it was secretly on sale. So I only ended up paying a few bucks more in the end.. worth every penny I spent for the peace of mind it gave me.

We ended up not getting hit too bad on this side of St Louis (southeast) but the folks in the western part of the county really suffered. Some of them are still without power going on 5 days now. We did lose power here for about 3 hours starting from about 5AM until 8AM on the first day. Not even enough to bother waking up for, but it was a good feeling knowing that I had other options other than freezing in the darkness for several days with a 5 month old baby in the house. Believe me, when there's several hundred thousand homes without power in your area, and the roads are hazardous, your options start disappearing very fast.

[camperdave]

Thanks to Professor and all the other contributors on this thread, lots of awesome info in here! For me, my early model Champion is still plugging along after about one year of service. It gets used about twice a month for a few hours at a time, so not much time on it but no issues so far! (except one of the wheels will not hold air, so the generator tilts a little to one side).

Good luck on your new job, I remember when my father left active teaching to become the Dean of his department. That lasted about one year until he quit and went back to teaching to keep his sanity (what was left of it 🙂 ).

david.

[P_J1]

I just about tripped over a Champion (RV model) generator at my local Tractor Supply store today $399.99!

I feel like a pretty smart fellow, (along with most others here) I only paid like $364.00 shipped.:B

[Oldfordman]

professor95 wrote:
Actually, the entire Chinese economic culture and the impact it has on our everyday lives is both a fascination and concern. China is a lot like Japan was 20 years ago

I was thinking this same thought a few days ago. In my mind, China is more like post-war Japan. In Japan it was a country rebuilding after near total destruction and in China, rebuilding after a long period of "arrested development" under the old guard Communist leadership.

As China becomes more and more of a world player the same dynamics will take over as they did in Japan. They will first exploit the availability of inexpensive labor. Over time, their products will need to be of good quality but more importantly they will need to be products that fit the needs and desires of their Customers.

This last point is something that has failed in our country. Large manufacturers have continued to push out products that fail the quality test. Product lines often do not answer the needs of desires of the Customer but are continued because the fulfill the needs and desires of Management (to keep profits up so their compensation is assured).

This thread is all about the Chinese Generators that are apparently meeting acceptable quality standards and certainly the desires of the Customer. The desire to have a useable product at an affordable price.

I retired from an industry (Tire/Automotive) that saw a lot of the production move to Chinese Factories. Not just tires but replacement Auto Parts. You would be amazed as to the volume of parts that are imported every day to support the Auto Industry. In the beginning the quality suffered. As time went, just like in post-war Japan, it improved and more production shifted that direction. If you go to a Chinese factory you don't see machinery from the Depression Era still in use. You see modern technology employed.

As to the effect on the US economy, this is a bit of a conundrum. Cheaper prices on products make living more affordable. Products produced offshore make for fewer jobs and for some, life becomes more unaffordable.

As for those that quickly write off the Chinese produced Generators as Junk, I offer that the same was said of Honda when they first introduced products to this country (both Cars and Power Equipment). Today, Honda appears to be the "Gold Standard" for Generators.

It certainly will be interesting to see how Chinese products are viewed 50 years from now.

[jimmyfred]

...............I just received the cover for the champion genset that I ordered last week . It was shipped from north carolina . The wheel kit was due to be available for shipment from NC on tues-16th. so given the weather I'm expecting it the first of next week . jf

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
professor, glad your back... you have been greatly missed

Well, I have never really been gone. I read the forum several times a week, but posting has been less frequent.

For some insane reason I accepted the job of Academic Dean on our campus last month (nope - no longer teaching or an Associate Dean). We have about 800 students and are one of almost 100 campus locations in the US giving us over 40,000 active students. My goal is to make our campus the best in the nation! My days and nights are now pretty busy. BTW, I did retire in 1999 and had no intent of starting a second career.

My love for camping and interest in the many aspects related to the hobby have not changed. In fact, I will now be able to schedule real vacations without the restraints of the instructional calendar.

The Chinese generators are still a real curiosity to me. Actually, the entire Chinese economic culture and the impact it has on our everyday lives is both a fascination and concern. China is a lot like Japan was 20 years ago.

While we may individually profit from the benefits of cheap Chinese labor costs, stolen technology and fairly unrestrictive trade laws, we are heading for a crisis in the unbalance of trade and loss of technical jobs and resources to offshore companies.

That is not just with generators, but millions of other products we use everyday.

Interestingly, Champion has never said their engines were Honda clones. In fact, they advise any similarity is purely coincidence. While they do have major stockholders in China, the company is significantly vested in the US economy and workforce. I kinda like that - sort of like Toyota building their cars in the US.

Anyway, I continue to look for quality products at an affordable price to make my life more enjoyable. The little 3000 watt Chinese generator has been a successful part of that search.