3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[dlefarris]

DaveVa78Chieftain wrote:
I installed my ELIM3000 in the generator compartment of my 78 Winnebago.
Closed in the sides with aluminum flashing.
Used a 12VDC radiator fan to push air through it for cooling. Air exhaust is routed down (using the aluminum flashing) through the original exhaust exit for regular RV generators. A 110VAC fan (connected to the 110VAC plug) could also be used.
Installed more insulation to help quiet the sound. Offensive noise is from the engine itself, not the exhaust.
Mounted generator on springs which virtually eliminates all vibration.
Connected a 12VDC fuel pump to pull gas from the aux tank (normal MH approach). Still have to reduce the clack-clack fuel pump noise. It is more annoying than the generator itself. Generator fuel tank is disconnected and empty.
Installed a switch on the front panel that operates both the pump and the fan.
Welded a short section of 1" elec conduit to the muffler. 3/4" Black pipe will thread into this which is what I used for joints and connections. Used victor muffler sealer to ensure tight joints. Exhaust exits out down through the air exhaust port then is routed back to the rear of the RV.
Direct wired the unit into the RV from the back of the 110VAC duplex plug. My rig uses a seperate plug swapped between shore power and generator.
I have an old RV converter (6 amp max battery charger) so I use an external battery charger running at 10 amps to maintain battery charge and run the fan/fuel pump.
Have been running it 4 days a week for 5-6 hours/day while boondocking. Doing great so far.
Will monitor heat issues during warmer summer months to ensure no problems.

Dave

Dave, I am wanting to do exactly what you did. I haven't opened the Elim300 box yet. What kind of springs did you use as well as the fuel pump. I found a pump at checkers that puts out 1.5-4 psi, Is this the one you used? Did you put the muffler outside the compartment? Would you know the minium space on the length of the Elim3000 as I only have 19" to install it. Any details would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Dlefarris

[guy48065]

Pardon my MH ignorance--I'm just a lowly pop-up camper 🙂 I'm assuming a 50 amp rig has 2 roof-mounted AC units and they're wired to separate 110V phases of a 50A 220 plug? Can somebody tell me what one of these AC units draws? And are the data plate specs for startup current or continuous?

[DaveVa78Chiefta]

I installed my ELIM3000 in the generator compartment of my 78 Winnebago.
Closed in the sides with aluminum flashing.
Used a 12VDC radiator fan to push air through it for cooling. Air exhaust is routed down (using the aluminum flashing) through the original exhaust exit for regular RV generators. A 110VAC fan (connected to the 110VAC plug) could also be used.
Installed more insulation to help quiet the sound. Offensive noise is from the engine itself, not the exhaust.
Mounted generator on springs which virtually eliminates all vibration.
Connected a 12VDC fuel pump to pull gas from the aux tank (normal MH approach). Still have to reduce the clack-clack fuel pump noise. It is more annoying than the generator itself. Generator fuel tank is disconnected and empty.
Installed a switch on the front panel that operates both the pump and the fan.
Welded a short section of 1" elec conduit to the muffler. 3/4" Black pipe will thread into this which is what I used for joints and connections. Used victor muffler sealer to ensure tight joints. Exhaust exits out down through the air exhaust port then is routed back to the rear of the RV.
Direct wired the unit into the RV from the back of the 110VAC duplex plug. My rig uses a seperate plug swapped between shore power and generator.
I have an old RV converter (6 amp max battery charger) so I use an external battery charger running at 10 amps to maintain battery charge and run the fan/fuel pump.
Have been running it 4 days a week for 5-6 hours/day while boondocking. Doing great so far.
Will monitor heat issues during warmer summer months to ensure no problems.

Dave

[toprudder]

It would be half the rated output per leg which is just fine as it would still equal the total output. Don't really think that the generator cares about the division of load as long as the maximum load doesn't exceed the generator's rating.

If you have a 240v outlet (two 120v legs) then you will have a double breaker, lets say it is 20 amps. If you try to get more than 20 amps out of either leg (even if the other leg is 0 amps) the breaker should trip.

It is this way in your house. If you have a 150 amp main breaker, then you have two 120v legs, each with a limit of 150 amps. If you exceed 150 amps on EITHER leg, the breaker will trip and you lose all power.

[Al_in_Va]

Thanks for the link, Dubman, I had missed it or forgotten it. Seems like electrical conduit is my best bet. I am amazed that the insulation Prof 95 used did not cause overheating. I may try some insulation in my box. Al in VA.

[Dubman]

Al in Va wrote:
Where can I find something to fasten to the exhaust (7/8" outside diameter) to route the exhaust out of the box? I need to get the heat outside. Any suggestions gratefully accepted. Al in VA.

On my enclosure, I used a copper bushing over the tailpipe, and a piece of 1" steel eletrical conduit(EMT) over it. It goes straight out through a 1.5" hole in the side of the box, and is removable, not clamped..Also, Professor95 had a link to his exhaust setup posted here. Photos Hope this helps..

[MrWizard]

capt-ron

I don't see any problems,

just for safety

I would do a good check of all the grounding, before grabing anything on the exterior..

[Capt-Ron]

toprudder wrote:

Capt-Ron wrote:
I have to ask, what about running a 50amp RV from the 220 volt twist lock receptacle?

Should work ok as long as you don't try to run too much load. You probably won't be able to get more than half the rated wattage of the generator on either of the 120v legs, however. Since all the appliances run at 120v, you would have to try to balance the two 120v legs evenly.

A 120v airconditioner compressor startup current might come close to half the rated wattage, or even more. If you wired the generator so it could put out full wattage at 120v, then you would have reserve left for the AC starting current, and would not have to think about which appliance is on which leg.

It would be half the rated output per leg which is just fine as it would still equal the total output. Don't really think that the generator cares about the division of load as long as the maximum load doesn't exceed the generator's rating. I would have to check but I believe that the A/C is on one side by itself in my 5ver. Chances are that any RV with 50amp service is designed so that the loads are evenly split as much as possible. I'll probably have to pull the cover on my breaker box to check this out.

I just feel that you lose some of the capacity of the generator by using the smaller receptacle and adapter no matter how the generator is modified to put out the full rated output.

It's an idea that makes sense to me and melting one terminal on a 30/50amp dogbone doesn't seem to be very efficient.

We stayed at my uncle's place last year and he told me that he had a 30amp receptacle that we could plug into. Well it turned out that he had a 30amp breaker with #10 wire going to a 20amp receptacle. I had to use 2 adapters for my 50amp plug and it wasn't long before we started having problems with the 20/30amp adapter overheating. I installed a new 50amp service that solved all the problems.

Capt Ron

[Al_in_Va]

Have the Power Pro from Pep Boys. Had a fellow who makes aluminum boats make a box to go over it that is attached to a carry all that goes into a 2"receiver hitch. The box is made of 1/8" aluminum diamond plate with the front and top hinged. Bottom of box is open over the expanded metal floor of the carry all. Just couldnt think of leaving the generator out in the rain on the rear of the fifth wheel for 1000 miles at a time. Cost was $400, only $100 more than I paid for the generator. I hoped it would reduce the noise more. There is some reduction when the top is open, but not as much as I had wanted. Dont know if I will try to put something in to deaden the sound more or not. MY QUESTION: Where can I find something to fasten to the exhaust (7/8" outside diameter) to route the exhaust out of the box? I need to get the heat outside. Any suggestions gratefully accepted. Al in VA.

[toprudder]

Capt-Ron wrote:
I have to ask, what about running a 50amp RV from the 220 volt twist lock receptacle?

Should work ok as long as you don't try to run too much load. You probably won't be able to get more than half the rated wattage of the generator on either of the 120v legs, however. Since all the appliances run at 120v, you would have to try to balance the two 120v legs evenly.

A 120v airconditioner compressor startup current might come close to half the rated wattage, or even more. If you wired the generator so it could put out full wattage at 120v, then you would have reserve left for the AC starting current, and would not have to think about which appliance is on which leg.

[Capt-Ron]

Man, what a thread...54 pages of information from knowledgeable people. What's really amazing is that there isn't any name calling or bickering. My hat is off to the Professor for starting this thread and to all that have contributed.

Now that I've read the entire thread including all the links and pictures (took me 2 days), I have to ask, what about running a 50amp RV from the 220 volt twist lock receptacle? I guess since all the talk is about 3000w generators that it's assumed that they could only be wired to operate the 30 amp RVs.
I'm not suggesting that more power can be obtained but I see no reason why a 50amp RV can't be plugged straight into the 220 volt with the correct plug since it is wired the same as shore power. Keep in mind that the breaker panel in a 50amp RV is divided into two circuits just like a house and has a 50amp double breaker.
This does away with using adapters and also supplies the power equally to the split panel through appropriately rated connectors and wiring.
It's much better to shove 26amps through a 50amp connection and wiring than to shove that same 26amps through connectors and wiring designed for 20 amps.

I feel that the problem understanding the above suggestion is that all RVs are designed to operate on 110 volt power. Well that's partly true in that the appliances are designed that way, even our clothes dryer is 110 volts, as is the A/C, water heater, ect. You will not find a 220 volt receptacle in an RV. All 30amp RVs plug into a 110 volt 30amp receptacle. A 50amp RV however, plugs into a 220 volt 50amp receptacle. To use a 50amp RV at a 30amp location a dogbone is used that ties the 2 legs that usually feeds the 220 volts together so that all the load goes through the dogbone.

I have run out of time but will post some links to demonstrate my theory.

I noticed that my locate PepBoys has a sale on the Power Pro for $299. Even though I already have the Honda pair I may just stop by PepBoys and get a Power Pro to play with, besides I can always sell it here after the prices spike.

Capt Ron

[guy48065]

Those are cute little casters. Wonder how they'd roll on grass...and how long before they'd sink right in while running? And with no handle it'd be a real blast trying to get it rolling again once pried out. That eBay seller is Elim itself so I guess the new shipment they've been waiting for has arrived (too late for some of us, though).

[RadioNeal]

If you look closely at the eBay photo, it says DY3000L

It would appear that this is a variation of the product line for this particular seller.

Cheers!

--Neal

Dubman wrote:
I just saw a new variation of the ELM3000.. The ELM3000L . Unlike the ELM3000 it has 12V and a wheel kit installed. It is also blue, and if you go to the Eliminternational.com website it shows it as red, and without the wheels.. And what is up with the muffler casing shown in the picture?? I tried downloading the parts book for it from the website, but keep getting error message.. Interesting.. Wonder if Pepboys will start stocking this one. BTW, still think my ELM3000 is great!

[Dubman]

I just saw a new variation of the ELM3000.. The ELM3000L . Unlike the ELM3000 it has 12V and a wheel kit installed. It is also blue, and if you go to the Eliminternational.com website it shows it as red, and without the wheels.. And what is up with the muffler casing shown in the picture?? I tried downloading the parts book for it from the website, but keep getting error message.. Interesting.. Wonder if Pepboys will start stocking this one. BTW, still think my ELM3000 is great!

[RadioNeal]

Clark W. Griswold wrote:
I have a question for those with the ELIM 3000 that have upgraded the 110 plug. Did you have to remove the fuel tank to get to it?

I bought a new plug and I plan on changing it out when I get time.

Thanks!

No, you don't have to remove the fuel tank. Just the four bolts at the corners of the front panel. The panel has a black plastic shield on the back, held on by sheet metal tabs. Once you remove the plastic shield, the receptacle is exposed. The whole job takes 15 minutes.

Cheers!