3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[professor95]

MrWizard wrote:
thanks, great Idea, i have similar parts in my 'parts & tools' drawer

I've been wondering where you went. I did a recent search of orbituaries in your local paper, but came up empty. Guess this means you're still kicking?

[Old___Slow]

Congrats Prof, the all time best. You are now ahead of the curve. What's next?

[MrWizard]

thanks, great Idea, i have similar parts in my 'parts & tools' drawer

[FulltimeDreamer]

Thanks professor! This is a great idea and a cheap insurance policy.

[professor95]

edited

[TUCQUALA]

FYI, the rebate for the C46540 is still available from the CSK group. It is still $150, and now runs from 3/30 till 4/26/2008. There is a different rebate form, it is now a full page with many other items involved. There is still a limit of 2 rebates per person. The rebate form at this time is online at the Parts America website.

[Old___Slow]

Oldfordman wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Well folks, if the higher ups and bean counters in Champion don't want to hear what some of us would like to have in a genny, guess we will have to go it alone. So hear is one option for those's who have a desire for progress past the Model T. Try to silence the 'great value' we have found in the Champion C46540, add Electric Start and this... I don't want to be the genny pig. Someone could order a remote start unit from US Carb. Then someone could give us the answer for the need of a electro choke and we would be in business. $300 for the C46540 and maybe $200 for extras and we would have our $500 genny to go up against the Onan P3200ie for $2000. Or maybe the bleu one? Sounds like a real deal.

Have you looked at this generator from Champion?????? Seems to me like they already make a 3500W/4000W generator with both RV plug (30 amp) AND ELECTRIC START!!!!

It DOES have a different model number than C45540, for some dumb reason (maybe it is because it has electric start) they call it the 40008.

Just exactly what ARE you looking for? If it is a genset with electric start for the price of a C46540 (currently $199 at CSK stores) good luck.

40008 ELECTRIC START Champion Generator

Oldfordman,

Thanks for letting OP know there is a 40008, I did look at one that was on the show room floor of a local RV Dealership. The price was $678 plus tax. I started a search for another brand at perhaps a better price. The Blue Max (Max Tool) was all over Ebay at a much lower price than the 40008 but DuroPower was mentioned by Professor95 so I opened their Website and found the Electric Start Dp3500EC Priced at $329. I have had both my Champion C46540 and the Electric Duropower sitting side by side at one time in my shop and both are vary similar, except of the Duropower has Electric Start. When I pulled the air flow fan shroud from each unit, I could see how easy it would be to add Electric Start to the Champion C46540. My thought was maybe Champion could offer a kit to upgrade the Champion C46540 to Electric State. No one except Brad seemed to have a interest to make a upgrade. At least I didn't see any posts from OP asking for this option. Prof had said, let Champion know your desires. This thread leans toward Champion, I do believe, so my asking was in line with what Professor95 had stated. I also have a interest in having remote control but US CARB might be the answer. Oh, by the way, except for a racket from the plastic engine fan, my Champion has been perfect in operation. And I love Yellow and Black. I keep the little Champ well polished in a retrofitted stock frame sound lowering enclosure.

[racefan1965]

Stop on by mcmurphrjk. I don't drink anything but soda pop but the wife always has beer there so I can offer you a cold one of either.lol Look on the camping map for my spot. It's close to the gate you enter into the camp grounds from the track. There is usually a vendor selling flags and stuff and a pay shower and then the campgrounds start. The aisles were marked last year. Your from Carson City huh? We used to race in Carson City. I pit on a racecar in a series called The north state challenge series. The cars are called super late models or tour cars. The drivers name is Junior Roddy. Yellow number 41. We loved and ran well at the old Carson Track. Too bad they shut it down. Hope to see and meet you in Infineon!:)
5rFozz...I've been to Phoenix and Infineon. Never been to a big track like Fontana but thought about it. You should try a road race at least once. We "never" fail to draw a huge crowd.lol
When we flew into phoenix we rented a car and stayed in a motel. It sucked. Loved the race track. We had pit passes and infield tickets. It was a blast. But we missed the camping experience. Like they say at nascarcamping.com...Rookies Tailgate.:) We Nascar fans camp for a week for each race. Not a measly day.lol We have been to Infineon to all but 1 of all the races Nascar has run there. The DW will never let me hear the end of it either! We used to sit on grass hillsides on blankets years ago and pay $50.00 to camp the week. Now it's $250.00 and there are bleachers everywhere. There isn't one seat in the house where you can see the whole track. It's a road course after all. The best seats there are as the seats that are as high as you can go in turns 9 and 10. You can see 75% to 80% of the track. Turn 7 is next with about 60% of the track and all the others are at about 40% to 50%. But all offer their advantages. If you like the pit action or the hair pin turn the main grandstands are for you. If you like to see them accellerating so hard they are pulling the front wheel off the ground or hopping off the curb to where the entire car is airborn turns 3 or 4 are for you. I'm handicapped so the wife and I sit at the "Very" top of turn nine in the wheel chair paddock.

Now lets make sure this thread is on topic somewhere...:D My champion saved my butt last year and might be needed again this year. I need to service my reefer somehow by myself. I have no idea what I'm doing either.:) Anyway...we found out last year after pulling into Infineon with a reefer full of beer and 5 days of food that our reefer didn't run on gas but ran great on A/C. So we fired up the champion and ran it from about 8 in the morning until 9 or so at night. Quiet hours are from 12:00 midnight to 6:00am. It was nice to have the air conditioning for the hot afternoons but it wasn't needed all morning and evening. It gets chilly after dark there. I bought a little 1500watt duro power silent camping generator incase the reefer messes up again or I can't fix it. It is rated at a supposed 60decibels in all the specs they provide. It's definately louder than that though and so far. My first leaked fuel and missed. 2 out of 2 gensets have had a miss as they run actually. From my experiences with their customer service and dealing with their return policy I'd have to say to make sure you, yourself, have the ability to fix something that goes wrong with your genset if you buy from them. Otherwise what was once a "good deal" becomes a expensive lesson.

Rick

[5rFozz]

I've been tempted to buy the Champion for some time, but am glad I waited. I picked one up last week with the rebate. Hopefully I'll get the time to fire it up this week and test it on my 5er (15k a/c). Rick, how is the Infineon race? I go to Fontana 2x a year. This Labor Day, I'll have A/C. Was 108 degrees in my camper last year (no a/c!!).

[mcmurphrjk]

Rick, I'll see you there.

[racefan1965]

professor95 wrote:

Racefan1965 wrote:
I'm pretty sure champion listens to what we have to say. They added the RV plug to their gensets after listening to what we had to say after all. Personally I'm lost on why you keep trying to get champion to build you this electric start genset when you already have one from duro power? Seems to me your just trying to get your digs in on champion and why still confuses me.

Rick

You are right, Rick. This forum was responsible for Champion's decision to provide the RV outlet and the ability to route full wattage to that single outlet. The inclusion of this small item was considered to be a "running model change" and was readily accepted by the retailers since it did not increase the unit cost.

While I know it is not your personal issue, I also feel that it is pertinent to point out to other members that Champion does currently build an electric start model, but UltraFab is the only known dealer that has elected to distribute it at retail. Other retailers have the option to carry the electric start but have not elected to go that route. The major issue seems to be the suggested retail price of the 40008 or 3500E from UltraFab as compared to the volume discounters such as CSK/Parts America.

As I have shared in previous postings, it does no harm to ask an RV dealership that has affiliation with Ultra Fab if they will give you a better price. I have a favorite RV dealer who I have purchased my last 3 RV's from. I also go to them for parts and service. Thus, they consider me a "good" customer and want to keep me happy. When I asked about a discount on a 40008, they were only too glad to oblige. I doubt that many, if any, folks on this forum pay full retail for a new RV, so why accept full retail for a generator? If you are buying a new RV, use it as an opportunity to leverage a better price on some desired accesories.

BTW, are you coming to Richmond for the May race? Is anyone who frequents the 3000W Chinese genny forum planning on attending the race? Might be a good time to try and arrange an eye ball-to-eye ball meeting at a local restaurant!

I wish I was at the race this weekend Prof. Looked cold on television. Living in California it's a little too far for me to travel. I will be at the Nascar race at Infineon Raceway race in June though. If anyone from this thread is going to be there look me up. I'll be in Z-17 handi-capped camping spot in the 50acre lot. You will have to like a un-silenced champion generator though. 😄

Rick

[Oldfordman]

Old & Slow wrote:
Well folks, if the higher ups and bean counters in Champion don't want to hear what some of us would like to have in a genny, guess we will have to go it alone. So hear is one option for those's who have a desire for progress past the Model T. Try to silence the 'great value' we have found in the Champion C46540, add Electric Start and this... I don't want to be the genny pig. Someone could order a remote start unit from US Carb. Then someone could give us the answer for the need of a electro choke and we would be in business. $300 for the C46540 and maybe $200 for extras and we would have our $500 genny to go up against the Onan P3200ie for $2000. Or maybe the bleu one? Sounds like a real deal.

Have you looked at this generator from Champion?????? Seems to me like they already make a 3500W/4000W generator with both RV plug (30 amp) AND ELECTRIC START!!!!

It DOES have a different model number than C45540, for some dumb reason (maybe it is because it has electric start) they call it the 40008.

Just exactly what ARE you looking for? If it is a genset with electric start for the price of a C46540 (currently $199 at CSK stores) good luck.

40008 ELECTRIC START Champion Generator

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:


Just as the Champion 40008/s owned by yourself and Mrwizard had AVR failures, several posts by owners of a Blue Max had AVR failures. One owner of the Max Tool unit recently posted he notified the Tech. Dept. of a problem and within one week he was sent a New AVR. This was the second or third post of this nature I have noted recently. So yes, many other brands are coming forward with better and better CS. 3000w Chinese gennys all, are a great value. Professor, your starting this thread has exposed all who have been privileged to read these posts to find answers to our needs and questions.

Floyd

[professor95]

Old & Slow wrote:
But for me and my house, we are enjoying great success with the use of the DuroPower. The Champion will serve as a back-up and a shop project in finding the best possible way to bring some silence.

Floyd

FANTASTIC!

..... and, that my friend, is exactly what this forum is suppose to be all about!

Those who wish to write on this forum about any particular make or model of Chinese 3,000 watt class generator do so according to their own personal preferences. I am elated to hear that your experiences with the DuroPower have improved. It is also great news to hear that Max Tools is a responsive company in this market. Sharing these experiences certainly broadens the scope of options available to the RV community.

I hope you enjoy your RV outing as much as Nancy and I have ours. A sunny, 80 degree day at the beach the last week in March is a welcome gift in Virginia.

[Old___Slow]

Prof95:

Just before I leave for a few days rec. at Inks Lakes I must comment. I will now rest my case concerning Champion and a possible new model Electric Start with remote control. Another MFG will soon come to market with just such a model and at a low price. I favored Champion because of the fact of what you call great CS. Other sellers of these Chinese gennys are now improving great CS. For one 'Max Tools' with there brand. I found a Champion 40008 was to expensive for me. I was forced to look else where. Even now DuroPower is selling their DP3500EC (Electric Start), which I own, at to vary low price of $429 delivered to your door. I have never had one problem with the operation of the DuroPower. At one time this importer was vary slow to answer a Email. Improvement is now in effect. Some no doubt will now come along and Bash this fine line of Gensets. But for me and my house, we are enjoying great success with the use of the DuroPower. The Champion will serve as a back-up and a shop project in finding the best possible way to bring some silence.

Floyd