3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[olephart]

There is a black wire for the kill switch and a yellow wire for the low oil switch. They both are behind the kill switch. They both have a quick disconnect in the line.

Disconnect both of them and try again.

[Cox89XJ]

professor95 wrote:

Cox89XJ wrote:
My Kenowa generator won’t put out any voltage. The last time I found a loose terminal, this time the exciter capacitor looks like it has blown out. Swelled up and leaking stuff out. It is a 24uf and 350 volt. Maybe I need to replace it with one with a metal case instead of plastic? I sure hope that fixes it. When I removed the gen cover I also noticed a little metal dust around the roller bearing. I believe I will replace that too while I have to torn down. Less than 100 hours and my hours of repair keep adding up????

The capacitor is most likely your overall voltage regulator. Chinese generators typically offered capacitor regulation or an AVR. Of the two the AVR offered a more consistent regulation and lacked the "avalanche" midway in the waveform of capacitor regulation.

Unlike AVR failure sending output voltage sky high, failure of the capacitor simply killed output. Certainly a lot safer in the event of failure.

Capacitors do "age" and as they do the dielectric breaks down and the plates begin to puncture. Internal heat makes the case swell and if filled with oil it will begin leaking.

A metal capacitor will do the same thing. Once it begins to swell, it needs replacement. Just source a good quality non-polarized capacitor. The cost should be under $10 - not the $30+ dollars the genny manufacturer will quote you. Again - non-polarized, do not replace with a polarized electrolytic capacitor.

Metal dust around the roller bearings are not a good sign. The bearings were designed to be lifetime lubricated. Not sure what they consider as a lifetime but they can wear out, especially when operated in dusty or salt air environments.

Replacing a bearing is not always easy. In most situations it must be destroyed to remove and the new bearing will require a special driver or press to install so as to not ruin it.

Putting a few drops of oil on the bearing is not going to hurt. In fact, it might extend the life of your generator. ALL of these gennys need routine cleaning. I remove the louvered end cap and blow out dirt and dust with compressed air.

The capacitor fixed it. Thanks

[bill_h]

professor95 wrote:
Bill,

The over voltage protection module takes power from the coil and samples the 120 VAC output. It is designed to ground the low oil line circuit if the voltage exceeds 135 VAC. I have no idea why they do not have a module in stock. Did you talk to Matt Cole in parts as I suggested?

No, I missed that. Will do it in the morning if I can get through before I have to do stuff.......Does Matt have an extension number?

If not, PM me so I can let you know how to call me - I can possibly help you over the "hump"..

Thank you for the kind offer. I should add that you are a really great source of information on this thread.

The biggest risk is the AVR failure, which is why the OV module is there to begin with. If the AVR fails on ANY of these Chinese generators the voltage can soar to as high as 190 VAC and destroy anything plugged in and running. AVR failure is not an everyday worry as it usually results from restricted air flow to the end cap of the generator or extremely high temperatures.

Oh Oh.......is 110 deg extremely high? Is there an upper limit on a Raytek reading on the end cap? Maybe I need to build a sun shelter for it. I'm getting afraid to take my eyes off the voltmeter. 😞

Another cause of AVR failure is NOT disconnecting loads before shutting down the generator.

Oh Oh again........ I guess this includes low oil shutdown. Mine is using oil. Sounds like I better top off my oil at every refuel to avoid an AVR failure. What a pain.

Oh Oh yet again. ........I guess this also includes running out of fuel. I had better set an alarm, then, huh? I get about 8 1/2 hours on a tank, running one 13.5K AC.

Lots of traps. What do they charge for a new AVR?

As for warranty just being parts and fix it yourself I know it did not used to be that way. You were given the option of doing that but always had the privilege of taking it to a prearranged service center of choice. Maybe that has changed - don't know????? Anyway, most of the guys prefer to swap out a part themselves if it is easy to get to rather than having the genny sit in a repair shop for weeks.

They never said anything about a service center. But, on the other hand, I didn't ask specifically. I am OK with doing my own work, as long as they send me the part. Driving to a service center would be OK, if they had the part to give me. Perhaps I will inquire in that direction.

Thanks for the good info on preventing AVR failure. What exactly causes the failure on a shutdown with a load connected? Is it low voltage? Do you think a low-voltage dropout relay would help this situation? Guardian makes one that opens at ~103 volts.

[professor95]

Bill,

The over voltage protection module takes power from the coil and samples the 120 VAC output. It is designed to ground the low oil line circuit if the voltage exceeds 135 VAC. I have no idea why they do not have a module in stock. Did you talk to Matt Cole in parts as I suggested? Matt might be able to get you the part. If not, PM me so I can let you know how to call me - I can possibly help you over the "hump"..

The biggest risk is the AVR failure, which is why the OV module is there to begin with. If the AVR fails on ANY of these Chinese generators the voltage can soar to as high as 190 VAC and destroy anything plugged in and running. AVR failure is not an everyday worry as it usually results from restricted air flow to the end cap of the generator or extremely high temperatures. Another cause of AVR failure is NOT disconnecting loads before shutting down the generator. This is true of ALL of these open frame synchronous Chinese gennys in the 3,000 to 7,500 watt class that use an AVR for regulation rather than a capacitor, not just Champion.

As for warranty just being parts and fix it yourself I know it did not used to be that way. You were given the option of doing that but always had the privilege of taking it to a prearranged service center of choice. Maybe that has changed - don't know????? Anyway, most of the guys prefer to swap out a part themselves if it is easy to get to rather than having the genny sit in a repair shop for weeks.

[bill_h]

OK, guys, thanks for the advice. I disconnected the oil level yellow wire. No Help.

Then disconnected the black wire that goes to the on/off switch and the "Isolation" thingy. My manual does not have an "Isolation" thingy, but the black wire goes to an "over-voltage protection module", which has the three wires your link shows and two more. The internals are not shown on the wiring diagram in my manual.

Any, the engine started on one pull. During all of this, my wife had been on hold with Champion since they opened, and finally got a person. He said that if I had a weak spark and disconnecting the black wire made it work OK, the "isolation diode" was probably bad. I guess that is the "Isolation" on the diagram you linked.



No, they didn't have any in stock, and no, they had no idea when they would. Months, perhaps.

So now, I am using it and shut off the fuel to stop it.

He also said to keep a sharp eye on the voltage, and shut down immediately if it rises. What fun.

I am a little underwhelmed at their warranty. It amounts to, "Ya gotta fix it yourself, but we will help you and maybe send you a part, if and when it comes in from China. I inquired as to the possibility of

I will ground out the oil level switch as a test just to be sure it works, as it seems to have an oil consumption situation. The CPE guy said he had never heard of high oil consumption. Maybe the rings just need to seat.

[professor95]

bill h wrote:


My next guess is a weak coil, but will call Champion.

Could be. I had to replace a coil on mine. It was completely dead (open).

On another the plug cap that goes into the coil wire was not fully seated and could not pass the spark. A push down on the wire and a few turns fixed the problem.

If you suspect the switch is bad like the WIZ noted disconnect the black wire from the coil and the low oil sensor, transition diode and switch will be completely removed from the system. If the black wire is grounded for any reason there will be no spark.

There MUST be an air gap between the coil and the flywheel magnets. If for any reason the coil should physically rub the flywheel you will lose induction and receive no spark. I loosen the screws that hold the coil in place, put 5 sheets of 20# printer paper between the coil and magnets then tighten the screws to hold the coil in place.

Pull the paper out and the air gap is suitably set.

I'm not saying any of this is your problem, only giving some tips in case you replace the coil or want to check the air gap.

If you were closer to me I would say "bring 'er on by" and we would have it running in less time than it takes to drink a soda.

Good luck!

[bill_h]

I went outside in the dark so I could see spark or not. The spark was a tiny orange thread with two good plugs with a normal gap. This was pulling the cord with the plug removed, so got pretty good rotational speed. Disconnecting the yellow wire from the oil switch made no change.

My next guess is a weak coil, but will call Champion.

[MrWizard]

Single wire near bottom of crankcase

I think that
Old models had switches that would sometimes stick,
New models have a timed circuit that is internally disconnected until after the engine starts

[bill_h]

Great info. Thanks. I'll take your advice and call them first thing. Tomorrow is gonna be another 100-plus day. 😞

professor95 wrote:
CPE did redesign the switch about two years ago so sticking is rare.

Mine was made in April this year. I hope it is the switch. I only suspect it because the engine uses oil, and shut down once before. After this shutdown, I topped it off with a shot glass or two of oil, but no restart.

[professor95]

bill h wrote:
My new Champion quit!


Anyone know where the low oil switch is located? Does it shut down the ignition by making a ground connection or breaking it? I am guessing that bypassing the low oil switch might be a good place to start.

Any suggestions or experience relating to this?

Bill, trace the wire coming out of the engine block on the front side. It should be black to yellow or yellow to yellow and have a connector that you can pull apart. If you disconnect the wire the low oil shutdown is disabled.

If the low oil switch is stuck the engine will usually fire one time and then nothing. CPE did redesign the switch about two years ago so sticking is rare.

You might be way ahead to just go ahead and call CPE and describe your problem. The tech's will walk you through a troubleshooting routine. Phone: (562) 236 9422

You can also visit their web site and check their tech bulletins for ideas.

[blkfe]

olephart wrote:
It can get tricky if you are hooking to your home to power stuff during power outages. The main service likely has 2 independent 120V buses. You probably have 120V circuits on both buses that you want to use. How do ya run one hot wire to both buses without booby trapping something?

The reason I use a Reliance transfer switch is cuz it doesn't care which main service bus bar the circuits are on. Just pick the 120V circuits you want to use and wire them per directions. No 240V circuits allowed even though the transfer switch can do it. The switch also physically removes the circuits from the rest of the main panel when in use. You simply can not back feed the other 120V circuits or energize 240V circuits accidentally.

The thing ya have to deal with is the Reliance is also a split bus device, just like the main service. Ya still need to feed 120V to both buses and ya only have one hot leg from the RV circuit.

The transfer switch uses a 4 prong twist lock just like the 240V generator outlet. Somewhere between the generator RV plug and the Reliance bus bars you will have to split the single 120V hot leg to feed both bus bars. I chose to replace the female end of of the RV cable with a 4 prong plug that fits the transfer switch. I used a short #10 jumper wire to connect both hot terminals in the new plug. This routes the single hot leg from the RV plug to both hot legs of the 4 prong plug. When connected, it energizes both bus bars of the transfer switch.

This left the generator and transfer switch completely unmodified - no traps for future unsuspecting people. The RV to 4 prong cable is labeled with a warning. Should someone manage to hook the cable to something with an active 240V circuit, sparks will fly. As usual, there are other methods to get the job done.

What you discribe is EXACTLY what I have done and it works perfict.
Brad

[bill_h]

My new Champion quit!

Ran fine for a coupla weeks, although it used a little oil. Shut down once and topping it off made it fine. Today, it quit for the second time, and it was down a shot glass or two. Topping it off did not help. A new plug did not help. Outside, in the bright sun, with my poor eyesight, I could see no spark.

I thought the low oil shutdown might need to be reset, but jiggling the generator did not help.

Gas tank full and fuel tap on. Cycled red switch and voltage switch.

Removing the air cleaner foam and shooting starter fluid as DW pulled the rope did not help, either. Choke, no choke, zilch.

Generator is level.

Anyone know where the low oil switch is located? Does it shut down the ignition by making a ground connection or breaking it? I am guessing that bypassing the low oil switch might be a good place to start.

Any suggestions or experience relating to this?

[Old___Slow]

professor95 wrote:

blksmith wrote:
I have the Lifan 2800 inverter.
The idle doesn't drop down much from full throtle. Does anyone know how to adjust this. Ifound the screw that will let the idle drop but the electronic pot won't let it go that low.
Tj

If the screw adjustment makes no difference, you most likely have a defective stepper motor or, worse yet, problems within the inverter module that control the stepper.

The current crop of inverter modules coming out of China are programmable via software. Thus, changes can be made to the inverter module's decision making process on a running change basis as the manufacturer finds necessary. This is similar to the ability to "reflash" the PCM in one of today's cars or trucks, printers, cameras, etc. The down side is I do not know of any link or open source software so that you or I could perform a reflash or upgrade.

I suggest that you get in touch with your Lifan Technical Service department to discover if there is something going on with the stepper or module itself that can be field corrected. If not, they "may" have an exchange program available for upgrading the module without having to fork over several hundred $$$ for a new one.

Keep in mind my relationship with Lifian is minimal - this is just "generic" advice. Your results may vary.

With the new Chinese gensets, there seems to be more the same in each brand then difference. Just wonder if the EC modules and stepper motors are from some of the same vendors that are used in different brands and badges . But, what is interesting is the stated fact that the modules can be programmed and re-programmed. Is this what is happening with Champion and Lifan?

Wish we were seeing more reports from owners of the Lifans.

[olephart]

Reliance Pro-Tran R30216B. 6x120V circuits or 4x120V circuits and 1x240V. 7500W. Has an individual breaker and Line/Off/Gen switch for each circuit. Does not switch the neutral.

Edit to add: The 31406CRK at Amazon is about the same thing for indoor installation. It's a swell deal if ya need a plug and power outlet.

[bill_h]

olephart wrote:

The reason I use a Reliance transfer switch is cuz it doesn't care which main service bus bar the circuits are on.

Which model did you pick?