3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[TeamSlacker]

professor95 wrote:

As I have trumpeted before, count on Chinese built units in this power class with a 196 to 205 cc engine to actually be a dependable 2,800 watt generator. While higher power is available, it cannot be depended upon for sustained output in high temperatures without increasing the probability of AVR or other component failure.

Just to add a little tuba to the prof's trumpet.
(at least in the earlier 3000+ w listed ratings)
I have 2 dead gen's in my garage, One is the 'PowerWise3500' purchased back on page 1 of this thread. The stator has a sticker on it "2.8kw 60hz 120v"
I also have my brothers "Wen" brand 3500w. The stator on that one is ingraved with a bunch of numbers to include something like: 28kw120v240v60hz (followed by a few more numbers)

For the record, both are dead with bad rotors. One has an open winding, the other has a winding shorted to ground somewhere. I was going to hand rewind them just for fun, until I counted turns and measured and realized it was going to be at least $50 for a roll of copper wire to do it.

[bill_h]

professor95 wrote:




As for the 3000/3500 watt vs. 3500/4000 watt ratings - IMHO it is mostly marketing.

That applies to just about every claim on the box. Power, noise, fuel consumption, etc. Mine does not meet any of the specs on the box.

Well, the weight might be correct. 🙂

[professor95]

DrBaker wrote:
I'm not finding it now, but I could have swore that somebody posted the differences between the Champ 4000/3500 and the 3500/3000 models. Why do these appear to have the same engine, design, etc?

If memory is correct, the post indicated they were truly the same genny??

Chinese open frame synchronous generators in this power class use essentially the same 196 cc, 6.5 HP engine built with obvious similarities to the Honda GX200. But, the HP rating has been given up in favor of just the displacement or perhaps torque for some manufacturers.

As for the 3000/3500 watt vs. 3500/4000 watt ratings - IMHO it is mostly marketing and possibly the size of the circuit breaker. The units rated 3500/4000 watts typically have a 25 amp circuit breaker. The units rated 3000/3500 have a 20 amp circuit breaker. You will also find the single voltage units (120 only) are more likely to have the higher advertised power figure than the dual voltage (240/120) units.

As I have trumpeted before, count on Chinese built units in this power class with a 196 to 205 cc engine to actually be a dependable 2,800 watt generator. While higher power is available, it cannot be depended upon for sustained output in high temperatures without increasing the probability of AVR or other component failure.

[DrBaker]

I'm not finding it now, but I could have swore that somebody posted the differences between the Champ 4000/3500 and the 3500/3000 models. Why do these appear to have the same engine, design, etc?

If memory is correct, the post indicated they were truly the same genny??

[professor95]

Hey Ryan! My golf cart is solar now. Good to hear from you. How is the Honda doing for you? Did you get to buy your land?

Ron - You got the best of the best. CPE listened to us and incorporated the features we wanted most into the new genny. I love mine. Enjoy!

Wiz - HOT here in the east, fortunately we are parked right on the oceanfront and get the cooler Atlantic breeze which drops the temps at least 10 degrees below the inland cities. Will be sending some of the heat back to the left hand coast guys Monday.

[MrWizard]

quabillion wrote:

Spectre21 wrote:
They don't!

Thats some funny stuff there, maybe try CPVC lol.

Oh wow, long time no post from you
Good to see you again,
You still got 1440 watts of solar, or did you squeeze a few more watts onto that roof ?

[fellow_traveler]

Hi Guys ,I have a new genny its a 46538 in my stable today ! I seen so much on this Genny and thought I would get one! I have the electric key start yellow Champ but wanted to have one I didn't have to go out and then key start it plug in the RV and the after were done in the morning go out unplug the RV and shut it down ;-(. Well now I have the auto start and shut down . It ran right out of the box on the remote! I took it out to the RV parked in the back yard pad and plugged it in went in the fiver and saw the generator in the back of the yard and hit the key fob bingo it started right up and then I turned on the 13.000Btu brisk air duo therm air-conditioner and no problem it started right up with fan on high yepee! Then I ran the microwave yep it too was running all at once!! the 20" TV ran too! Well It should be a good asset to our camping enjoyment. My better half said she though it was quite to her ears too! Good Job Champion two thumbs up. IMHO This is the best unit to date for the features and quality PS I have three champs now all RV 30 amp plug units well I really enjoy ever ones post and get information on how others are having !All my Genny's are still running well and I feel they are a good backup for me!

[quabillion]

Spectre21 wrote:
They don't!

Thats some funny stuff there, maybe try CPVC lol.

[tvman44]

Go to Champion Power Equipment website they have several bulletins there pertaining to generator maintenance and one of them is how to check the AVR. Pretty easy to do.

Jer&Ger wrote:
Hi guys. I've been following this site for a long time, but this is the first time (I think) I've posted a question. I've got a Champ C46540 that the voltage will not go over 30-40 v./120 sometimes at startup. I'll shut it off and walk away, come back in a few minutes (5-20 min.), and it will run at 122v. just like it should. It has done this to my quite a few times, usually when I'm just doing it's service period warmup. I suspect it's the AVR, but I don't know how to test any of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Jerry

[MrWizard]

open up the end cap
un bolt the avr
check the "FIELD BRUSHES" at the end of the rotor, they might NOT be making good contact

[Jer_Ger]

Hi guys. I've been following this site for a long time, but this is the first time (I think) I've posted a question. I've got a Champ C46540 that the voltage will not go over 30-40 v./120 sometimes at startup. I'll shut it off and walk away, come back in a few minutes (5-20 min.), and it will run at 122v. just like it should. It has done this to my quite a few times, usually when I'm just doing it's service period warmup. I suspect it's the AVR, but I don't know how to test any of this. Any ideas? Thanks, Jerry

[olephart]

OK. I'm leaving it alone. Sorta. The NGK B8ES spark plug I ordered just arrived. I set the gap at .027 for Natural Gas. Seemed to start quicker and gained 25 RPM and about .4 Hz over the OEM plug.

I reset the governor so it produced 59.9 Hz at 13.5A (same as the old plug). Now, I'll leave it alone.

[JConatser]

Ditto "leaving it alone".

[tvman44]

I'll 2nd professor95, leave it alone, cannot get much closer than that.

[professor95]

At 3500 rpm the frequency is 58 Hz.

At 3800 rpm the frequency will be 63 Hz.

Both are within the acceptable +/- 5% margin of 60 Hz. (+/- 3 Hz)

IMHO, leave it alone.