3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[skyzoomer]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
One of the stories is/was of a family using a portable generator due to a power outage - and being overcome by high concentrations of CO.

The coverage showed the generator in the yard - quite a distance from
the house! Of course, there's no way to tell if that was the location
when it was running or not. [Victims apparently survived].

Hmmm, looks like distance is not that effective if the wind is blowing the fumes toward the house. Maybe an exhaust stack with the top of the stack above the roof is the only safe way to go? Definitely got me wondering.

[skyzoomer]

Broccoli1 wrote:
I can get the parts here and send them to ya if you're having a hard time finding something local.

I actually have a shipment of Photo gear going to Kuaii on Sept 12th and I can just make the Cord and put it in for the crew t hold for ya- That's if you're on Kauii:B
Ed

Broccoli1,
That is so kind of you to offer to do that! After some intensive searching on the web I finally found this place and ordered a TT-30 RV plug:

http://www.fruitridgetools.com/storefrontprofiles/processfeed.aspx?sfid=136763&i=15813232&mpid=8171&...

Their shipping rate to Hawaii is via USPS priority mail (instead of UPS or Fedex) so even their shipping is reasonable.

I found an electrical supplier locally that will sell me the hubbell L5-30 body receptacle (mounts on cords) and #10-3 cord by the foot, both at reasonable prices, so I'm good to go with my power cord now.

Thanks so much for being so nice & have a great week!
Skyzoomer

[ol_Bombero-JC]

Just playing "catch-up" on the thread.
I see back on page pg 413 (2nd post) "oldfordman" calls attention to
the distance a/the generator should be from a house to avoid
potentially deadly concentrations of CO.

So. CA has recently experienced a heat wave that resulted in power
outages. As might be expected, heat related deaths (etc.) are the
prime stories on the nightly news.

One of the stories is/was of a family using a portable generator due
to a power outage - and being overcome by high concentrations of CO.

The coverage showed the generator in the yard - quite a distance from
the house! Of course, there's no way to tell if that was the location
when it was running or not. [Victims apparently survived].

Anyway - good advice here as usual.
(distance & CO detector).
JC

[SonicLogic]

professor95 wrote:
But, I feel you are giving the "J" designation cords a bad rap. Please allow me to add to the explaination.

Go to this site for a more detailed explanation.



Here’s an excerpt;

Nomenclature Key

S = Service Grade (also means extra hard service when not followed by J, V, or P)
J = Hard Service
V = Vacuum cleaner cord (also light duty cable)
P = Parallel cord (also known as zip cord) – Always light duty
E = Thermoplastic Elastomer (UL/NEC designation ONLY)
O = Oil Resistant*
T = Thermoplastic
W = Outdoor-includes sunlight resistant jacket and wet location rated conductors
(formerly "W-A")
H = Heater cable
VW-1 = Flame retardant
FT2 = Flame retardant

[TKMJ]

Parallel coils and the AVR

OK guys I understand about splitting the centertap on a genset and phasing the two coils together in parallel to double current output reducing my 240/120 genset to 120 volts only. How is the regulator/AVR to be handled? Are there any changes in the hookup that should be made? Will the regulator/AVR handle the full current load?

[Broccoli1]

skyzoomer wrote:
Jimmy, Oldfordman and Todd,

Thanks for your replies.

There are few if any RVs in my state (Hawaii) so no place sells the RV power plug. I physically went to HomeDepot and two hardware stores, and called Lowes and two local electrical supply houses. Nada. When I do online searches at the Walmat and Homedepot web sites (used the HomeDepot SKU number that Todd supplied), I can't find the RV plug.

30a Rv-bare on other

You can also order a Pig Tail from gentran

Gen Tran Pig tail

and get a 30A RV cord as it will come in handy when you need to place the Genset away from the TT


** Just a note on the Gentran Pig Tail- it is listed for use with Parallel kit because Gentran was not aware that gensets now have the TT30 on them


Just noticed that B&B trading does not ship to HI:o

Also just read that you don't have a TT:B

I can get the parts here and send them to ya if you're having a hard time finding something local.

I actually have a shipment of Photo gear going to Kuaii on Sept 12th and I can just make the Cord and put it in for the crew t hold for ya- That's if you're on Kauii:B
Ed

[skyzoomer]

professor95 wrote:
Forget the idea of using pvc or cpvc on the exhaust of the genset. Use 3/4" id metal and keep it 3 feet or less. If you must go over 3 feet, increase your size to 1" id for an absolute max of 6 feet. For each 90 degree bend in the pipe, take off a foot of legenth in the allowance.

Professor95, thanks for your help (and for starting this humongous thread!). I had started a new thread titled "Homemade generator exhaust system" and have just posted a diagram of my proposed configuration. I would appreciate your critique there very much.

Homemade generator exhaust system link

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

[byates]

TKMJ
On the electrical cord review, thanks for keeping it simple. SOW is simple and easy to remember.

B. Yates

[professor95]

TKMJ wrote:
Now lets look at cord coding. The type of cord stampped on the jacket. Each letter of the code means something different. Most standard extention cords are coded type SJW.
"S" means standard rubber or plastic cord jacket.
"J" means junior grade. The jacket is thin and should not be left outside in use for long periods of time. The jacket can crack from heat and sunlight. It is also easy to nick and will not take much abuse.
"W" means simple enough "waterproof"
Now there is another code letters "O"
"O" means outdoor use.
Being a certified master electrician and the owner of TKMJ Productions a sound production and audio recording company, all of my cords are marked "SOW" (standard, outdoor, waterproof) This is the coding you want on your cords. "SOW" cords are very heavy with thick insulation and a very heavy jacket. They can take a lot of abuse of cars and trucks running over them. You can pull them thru gravel parking lots without worry. They are also very heavy in weight. About the only thing you can't do to them is run them over with your lawn mower.

Stay away from any cord for your RV or genset that has the "J" marking unless it is used in an area that will not have traffic walking on it. Type "J" cords are "very light duty" and do not take a lot of abuse.

So lets get back to your cord in the backyard. I would recomend a "SOW" cord if you plan on letting it set outside for long periods of time (longer then a week) or a "SO" type cord if you are going to run the cord out when the power fails and put it away when power is restored. "SO" cord can set outside for a few days without a worry.

Extremely good information on cord types. Thank you.

But, I feel you are giving the "J" designation cords a bad rap. Please allow me to add to the explaination.

The first letter, in this case "S", actually refers to a portable appliance cord with a rubber outer jacket, stranded conductors, cotton between wire and insulation, and jute fillers.

After the first "S" you may encounter one or more letters.

Following the "S" the letter "J" (like SJ) indicates medium duty with (some type of) outer rubber jacket. It is good stuff, UV resistant and will last a long time. It is not good if you are going to drive over it or leave it outdoors on a l*o*n*g term basis.

SV type cord is for light service. Not advised for your project. This is the one you should stay away from!

The "O" suffix indicates a neoprene cover. Really tough stuff, oil resistant, highly UV resistant. Stays flexible at cold temps.

The "W" indicates wet applications. i.e. Outdoor in rain and snow.

Some brands may omit the "J" giving a designation of SOW (like TKMJ uses). As suggested, this would be a good choice for your application. Do not be shocked at the per foot price. It ain't cheap!

For more on cord chacteristics you might want to cruise General Cable's Catalog.

[professor95]

skyzoomer wrote:
To Professor95 or anyone else who has run an exhaust pipe from their generator,

If you feel the exhaust pipe after your generator has been running a while, what is the distance from the generator that you can hold your hand on the pipe without burning? I hope to transition from metal to PVC for my exhaust pipe using your info.

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

Forget the idea of using pvc or cpvc on the exhaust of the genset. Use 3/4" id metal and keep it 3 feet or less. If you must go over 3 feet, increase your size to 1" id for an absolute max of 6 feet. For each 90 degree bend in the pipe, take off a foot of legenth in the allowance.

Question about the transfer switch. Is it a 2 pole (240 volt) or single pole 120 volt? This fact will have a major impact on the gauge of wire you use and the load you can have attached. I need the answer before I can comment/advise.EDIT: Never mind the above question. I had the 116 switch confused with the 216. I now see it is strictly 120 volt, single pole. You are on the right track.

[skyzoomer]

Old & Slow wrote:
HD/ Home Depot but if none in your part of the world try any store with plumbing supplies. Good luck, I think you will find the job to be easy.
O&S

We have a Home Depot in our area. Thanks for the tip,
Skyzoomer

[MrWizard]

a NO load condition is a lot less strain on the generator & AVR than being under load, it SHOULD not be problem, but that depends on the tolerance of the parts.

HOW often does this occur, every 6months, every 3months, every week

for any period less than 3 months i wouldn't even bother, just turn it off and then drain the carburetor bowl, or left the gas in it.

you know your going to run it in 2 weeks, don't bother ( but thats me )

[cmg3500]

A few post back there was some talk about voltage regulators going bad/being broken.I have a Wen Power Pro 3500
I was wondering,I always run the fuel out of my carb on my gen,& it surges,& spitts & sputters,untill it doesn't have anymore left in the carb to run.
Can this hurt the voltage regulator?
Of course I run the fuel out with no load on the gen.
I;ve always done this with my loud 5kw coleman,but it has the capacator to regulate the voltage.the Power Pro is the 1st generator I own with an AVR.
Thanks for any info.

[Old___Slow]

skyzoomer wrote:

Old & Slow wrote:
Maybe I can help. Just completed relocating the muffler and extending the muffler tail pipe on my C46540. Buy a 3/4" floor flange a HD. Use the silver plate that fits over the screen insert as a template, drill holes to match, you can also have a machine shop due the final shaping. You can then go with 3/4" couplings and pipe as needed. This all came to me from our Mrwizard.
O&S
Ps RTV from Auto Parts Stores for Gasket.

O&S,

You just saved some head scratching...:) I don't understand the "Buy a 3/4" floor flange a HD" part. What's a HD?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer

HD/ Home Depot but if none in your part of the world try any store with plumbing supplies. Good luck, I think you will find the job to be easy.

O&S

[skyzoomer]

Old & Slow wrote:
Maybe I can help. Just completed relocating the muffler and extending the muffler tail pipe on my C46540. Buy a 3/4" floor flange a HD. Use the silver plate that fits over the screen insert as a template, drill holes to match, you can also have a machine shop due the final shaping. You can then go with 3/4" couplings and pipe as needed. This all came to me from our Mrwizard.
O&S
Ps RTV from Auto Parts Stores for Gasket.

O&S,

You just saved some head scratching...:) I don't understand the "Buy a 3/4" floor flange a HD" part. What's a HD?

Thanks,
Skyzoomer