3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[blkfe]

For those of you building enclosures, would this help?

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007082214382198&item=28-1403&catname=

[ol_Bombero-JC]

.

[Wgeorge11]

The adventurous mind of a true tinkerer never ceases to amaze me. By the way, that wrench identified in photo 3 looks a lot like a Rigid of mine that disappeared. By the way, sorry you lost your boat house.

[professor95]

Just a "heads up".

Northern Tool + Equipment has the ProForce 3000 watt Chinese Honda engine clone genset in their fall and winter catalog (page 12) for $299.00. They also have the Chinese built Cummings/Onan 3500 for $599.00.

We were at the "Rivia" (river for non-locals) last week. Big, bad thunderstorm came along and knocked out power. Once again, the little Champ kept us cool and illuminated, also abreast of the storm track via the DTV. Most other folks in the campground, sans a few big motorhomes, were in the humid darkness. It is nice to have that little bugger on-board!

Not so lucky at home. The storm brought down a fair size sweet gum and totally destroyed my boat garage. Luckily, the boat was with us at the rivia.

I finished the conversion to propane on the Champ 6,500 for my house last week and now have it installed.

photo 1
photo 2
photo 3

It replaces the old Generac with the Briggs engine that had developed a knock (rod?) It is sweet! This unit "might" be an option for larger RV's with 50 amp hook ups. It is a lot louder at 74dBA.

My next propane conversion project will be the 40008 Champion on the back of the camper. The blue moving blanket in the pic was part of a recent sound reduction/cooling experiment. Once the fuel tank and muffler are removed, sound shielding panels will be added (not a full enclosure). Preliminary test indicate a significant sound reduction is possible while still maintaining safety.

Please be reminded that my sharing this type of info is in no way an endorsement for others to do the same. Photos are only for entertainment purposes. I give no warranty as to the safety or appropriateness in other environments!

[Old___Slow]

The question asked was not thought out well. The light was slow release. I found the answer.

O&S

[Old___Slow]

Magic43:

I have found so many helpful fellow RV neighbors On this thread. Awesome. All RV folks need to know the information given by Mrwizard/oldfordman/ you magic and all others concerning genset care. My desire is that all this information can be brought together that we RV folks will clearly understand proper genset care.

Thanks,

O&S

[magic43]

O&S. If the Onan runs out of gas, is turned off, etc while under load, the voltage drops, which sends the current sky high. Even though this a momentary thing, the voltage regulator suffers.

The bottom line is to always remove the load from ANY generator before turning it off.

[dsrt_dwllr]

:C Well, after lurking this forum for the past month, I bought my Champion 46540 tonight. I intend to un box and oil and gas it up tomorrow.

Have a week long TT trip planned for the coast next week.

Just wanted to thank Professor, Mr Wizzard, and all the rest for the 400 plus pages of insight and reccomendations.

[TKMJ]

Old & Slow wrote:

O&S

PS:
I like your style, OLD SAGE!

Old Sage? like in is someone around here Native American? Maybe on the powwow trail?

[Old___Slow]

Oldfordman:

The Onan in previous use in my motorhome was vintage. Emerald One. The voltage reg. and I'm not telling you this because you are not familiar with these old models, the voltage reg.was placed in the control panel box, in the rear, mounted in a way, so heat transfer helped met its end. It was cooked. ONLY 261 hrs on the meter. This is certainly not my area of expertise. I only know what I see. MrWizard has another Point.
The two of you together answered the question. The Onan repair man should have mentioned to me the explanation of Mrwizard. The spikes, lack of use, heat all fit. I replaced the control panel in error. The problem I had was not the control panel, yes it was the voltage reg. Now add to the voltage reg. failure, the stator q windings were burned.
Explanation needed from someone. All this from the Onan service man. So he told me when the voltage reg. so goes the Q windings. This is all foreign ground to me. RV folks not in the know are at the mercy of a truthful repair man.

O&S

PS:
I like your style, OLD SAGE!

[Oldfordman]

Old & Slow wrote:
MrWiz:

Any idea why the voltage reg, so often goes out in the Onan's? They cost like h--- to replace $336.00

O&S

It might be a good exercise to check temperatures of the voltage regulator while the genset is running under load. The unit is installed in a compartment and the regulator may not be getting the necessary cooling air flow as the set is cooled by "vacuum flow".

I have found numerous electronic components in Cars, Trucks, and Boats, that are supposed to be mounted on heat sinks with a heat conducting paste that either have NO paste or only a match-head sized glob. HEAT KILLS.

If the regulator measures much over 170 degrees when measured with an IR heat gun, consider either moving, ducting cooling air, or adding a fan that directs cool air on it. IIRC Most electronic devices are rated for a tempreature rise of 60 Celsius over the ambient temp. This would be about 180 degrees F. max if the ambient temp is 100 degrees. Right at the ragged edge for any solid state device.

[kausin_komotion]

I guess for all of your good stories about customer service with champion I have had part good and part bad dealing with them.I bought this generator in oct. 2006.
I first ordered a cover for my c46540 about 5 weeks ago and they were out of stock waiting for them to be shipped in,after 2 phone calls and 3.5 weeks still no cover(they originaly told me 2 but no big rush so o.k.)then I went to change the spark plug for the 1st time and found like many of you the plastic plug cover broken in 3 pieces and tip of the plug was bent.So I e-mailed and told them about that and asked about the cover again,they said it was covered under warranty and the cover would be here soon.A week goes by I have a charge for $9.99 on my credit card and no parts yet.So I e-mail again and the cover shows up and now there is another charge for $43.79 on my card?They quoted me $34.02.I call again twice and after this mess they only take off the $9.99 original charge,I paid $44 for a cover(for a $300 generator) but the good news is the plug cover showed up yesterday in one piece.

[77charger]

Lil update unloaded stuff from trip at home decided last night try the gen since i am lower elevation,also installed the spark arrestor fired it up let it run for a min,got the bigger gargage compressor which had no air in it the champion powered it up something my duropower couldnt do.Also sounded a lil quieter too with the screen in.

[TKMJ]

jconatser wrote:

toprudder wrote:
...in my RV, the built-in genset DOES have the neutral and ground bonded. When operating from the generator, the generator IS treated as the main panel I guess.

Indeed it is, but therein lies the *potential* problem.

At a Main Panel there should ALWAYS be a ground rod driven in order to ensure that both the ground AND THE NEUTRAL WIRE THAT'S BONDED TO IT are at a good, safe ZERO Earth ground potential. So the question is: do you drive a ground rod and connect it to the generator's ground and neutral before you fire it up?

If you do, then you're fine, no problem. If you don't, however, the moment you fire your generator up, it's metal frame, along with the metal parts of your RV, are now part of the generator's ungrounded, FLOATING NEUTRAL.

I don't know about you, but I don't want my wife and grandkids (or me either, for that matter :E) walking around my RV bumping into a 120VAC FLOATING NEUTRAL.

Knowing full well that I'm not going to be diligent like I should be and ALWAYS drive a ground rod before I fire up my generator, I simply unbonded it's neutral and ground connections. Although that's not a 100% perfectly safe "fix", I have absolutely no doubt it's a whole lot safer than an ungrounded 120VAC FLOATING NEUTRAL being part of my generator and RV's frame.

I removed the bond in my RV panel after my wife got knocked on her butt from that genset I purchased. Wildfire the genset maker has not been in contact with me since genset 3 was delivered and rejected because of a bad regulator and a miswired system. I think I had about enough of the crap. I'll give them till tomorrow to contact me and FIX the problem. I think they now know they really screwed up. I did my end in good faith. If the want my defective genset that almost killed my wife, It will cost them bigtime. I will sell it back to them at "MY PRICE". However they can make a reasonable offer that I will consider.

[jimmyfred]

kingman wrote:
Hi all.I have one of the chinese generator's that is very similar to the champion model.I have done the rewire to get rid of the 240 and to get full power at 120.My question is has anybody else had there generator lose power for a couple of second's without tripping the breaker or stalling the engine when first putting to big of a load on it? If i try to turn on my air conditioning in my trailer to fast with a low battery it will trip the genny out without stalling the engine or tripping a breaker.If i reduce the load it will power back up.Do these generator's have some sort of internal protection inside beside's the breaker? I used the genny for the first time for a week of 8-10 hour's a day and just had to let the genny charge the battery for a little while in the morning before i turned on the air.After the converter had charged the battery i could use the microwave at the same time as the air without a problem.Anybody with any feedback on this please chime in. Thank's

.........My guess would be that there was additional loads on the genny you were't aware of . For instance your converter will place a load on the genny that is somewhat proporinate too the 12vdc load being placed upon it ! Plus , your fride is going too be cycling on 12vdc as well . Try putting your fridge on Gas and I'll bet that with fully charged batt's your genny should power your air unit with no skips . , jf