3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[coachk34]

Now if we can only find out if there is a new and improved champion generator coming out soon. LOL

[Oldfordman]

Champion was probably working overtime with their phone and e-mail inquiries.

Here is the response I got via e-mail:

"We utilize a cast iron sleeve. Thanks for your inquiry.



Dennis Trine

CHAMPION POWER EQUIPMENT

Toll Free: (888) 696-0668

Phone: (562) 236-9420 x 105

Fax: (562) 236-9429

dennis@cpeauto.com

www.championpowerequipment.com

"

In my opinion this engine will last as long as the Honda if one takes care of it.

[myomy]

After reading and studying about all the generators I bought the Champion ,,I am so glad i did ,,, the big reason is how QUIET this thing runs ,,also the RV plug is a must..I run my Carrier 15000 with no problem.This is one of those machines that make you say!!! WHAT A DEAL,,,,,,,,,Rod

[professor95]

I just hung up the phone with Paul Cole at Champion Power Equipment.

All of Champion Power Equipment's engines from 3.5 HP on up have cast iron sleeves.

What do other Chinese companies have? That is still up in the air as to who has what poked in their cylinders. Perhaps over time we can identify them.

I hope this puts the cast iron sleeve question to rest. I really do appreciate the info that has been shared. It truly meets the criteria I tried to establish when the forum was started.

[professor95]

SonicLogic wrote:
GX-series engines have low-oil shut-offs, which prevent damage to the engine. The GC160 engine has an aluminum bore where the GX-series have cast iron bores, giving the Honda GX- engines a longer life. GX-series have fuel-shutoff valve so that if they are run infrequently you can run the fuel out, which is easier on the carburetor. GX-series have on/off switch where the GC-series have on/off combined into the throttle control. You'll find a lot of metal on the GX-series and plastic on the GC. For example, the gas tank on the GC is plastic; on the GX-series it’s steel.

Well, that certainly explains the difference in cost between the GC and GX. Actually, I feel kinda silly because the answer should have been obvious.

Now, for the next question? How many Chonda GX clones or look alikes have a cast iron sleeve?

I am shooting an e-mail to Paul Cole at Champion. Hopefully I will soon get a reply for his product line.

[bobandcat]

pafcu wrote:

Mr. Tommy wrote:
Let's keep in mind here, that we're talking about $300 generators compared to $1500-2000 units. If it blows up in a year or so, buy another one and you're still ahead...

I would not consider a $1500-2000 unit. Too rich for my pocketbook.
Onan 3500 at my Onan Cummings Distributor-$589 no shipping-I can afford

Best long term deal for me.

Pafcu,
I don't know if you would be interested in a larger Chinese Onan. However, Costco has a good deal on the 6500 Series. Its rated at 5000 watts with electric start & cast iron sleeve. For $90 more, you can have twice the power & elec. start. Sale ends Wednesday, 31Jan07 at costco.com!

Cummins Onan HomeSite™ 6500
Portable Generator
$200 Off Reflected in Price
Includes Wheel Kit

$679.99
Item # 115180
Shipping & Handling included

[SonicLogic]

• GX-series engines have low-oil shut-offs, which prevent damage to the engine. The GC160 engine has an aluminum bore where the GX-series have cast iron bores, giving the Honda GX- engines a longer life. GX-series have fuel-shutoff valve so that if they are run infrequently you can run the fuel out, which is easier on the carburetor. GX-series have on/off switch where the GC-series have on/off combined into the throttle control. You'll find a lot of metal on the GX-series and plastic on the GC. For example, the gas tank on the GC is plastic; on the GX-series it’s steel.

http://www.ventry.com/fans/faq/gc-vs-gx.html

[Mike_R_]

professor95 wrote:

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Champion does warrant the generator for one year. After the year is up, then what? Without the cast iron sleeve in the cylinder as the Honda GX series has, I wonder how long the unit will last. I would be more apt to pay $200 more and purchase the Chinese genny with the cast iron sleeve. It comes with a two year warranty and is more apt to give you the long term reliability of a Honda.

Interesting.

I was under the impression that the Honda GX200 engine does not have a cast iron sleeve. I could be wrong, but I have neither seen or read anything to make me believe otherwise.

Honda GX specs are listed here and can also be found HERE.

There is no mention of a cast iron sleeve.

Small aluminum air cooled engines without cast iron sleeves have been around for decades. Most all Briggs 3.5 and 5 HP engines are straight aluminum cylinders with the exception of the Industrial models. I have several small engines that are not cast iron sleeved. Each has provided many, many years and hours of reliable service.

I have a water pump that was powered by a Briggs 5 HP engine that ran 24 hours a day weeks at a time during the rainy seasons to keep my lower forty from becoming a haven for mosquitoes and algae. Foolishly, I let it get low on oil last year and seized the connecting rod. I replaced it with a Honda GC160 engine that I bought from Northern for $200.00. The GC does not have a cast iron sleeve either. It now has about 500 hours on it and still does not use a drop of oil between change intervals.

There is no argument that cast iron wears slower than aluminum, but at what point does that become significant on a small air cooled engine? Honestly, I have not found that significance yet.

It would be nice to get the real poop on Honda GX200 series engines and cast iron sleeves. Also factual info as to what Chonda engines do or do not have a cast iron sleeve. As I said, it is really moot for me other than having accurate information.

Anybody have a positive answer? Maybe someone who regularly repairs and rebuilds these small air cooled engines has some insight to share?

Inquiring minds do want to know.

I look around at the site's you gave a link to, and it appears the GX engines do have a cast iron lining. LINK

[professor95]

ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Champion does warrant the generator for one year. After the year is up, then what? Without the cast iron sleeve in the cylinder as the Honda GX series has, I wonder how long the unit will last. I would be more apt to pay $200 more and purchase the Chinese genny with the cast iron sleeve. It comes with a two year warranty and is more apt to give you the long term reliability of a Honda.

Interesting.

I was under the impression that the Honda GX200 engine does not have a cast iron sleeve. I could be wrong, but I have neither seen or read anything to make me believe otherwise.

Honda GX specs are listed here and can also be found HERE.

There is no mention of a cast iron sleeve.

Small aluminum air cooled engines without cast iron sleeves have been around for decades. Most all Briggs 3.5 and 5 HP engines are straight aluminum cylinders with the exception of the Industrial models. I have several small engines that are not cast iron sleeved. Each has provided many, many years and hours of reliable service.

I have a water pump that was powered by a Briggs 5 HP engine that ran 24 hours a day weeks at a time during the rainy seasons to keep my lower forty from becoming a haven for mosquitoes and algae. Foolishly, I let it get low on oil last year and seized the connecting rod. I replaced it with a Honda GC160 engine that I bought from Northern for $200.00. The GC does not have a cast iron sleeve either. It now has about 500 hours on it and still does not use a drop of oil between change intervals.

There is no argument that cast iron wears slower than aluminum, but at what point does that become significant on a small air cooled engine? Honestly, I have not found that significance yet.

It would be nice to get the real poop on Honda GX200 series engines and cast iron sleeves. Also factual info as to what Chonda engines do or do not have a cast iron sleeve. As I said, it is really moot for me other than having accurate information.

Anybody have a positive answer? Maybe someone who regularly repairs and rebuilds these small air cooled engines has some insight to share?

Inquiring minds do want to know.

[SonicLogic]

professor95 wrote:


Virtually all GX type Chonda engines are machined from a cast aluminum block made by one of two major Chinese foundries. I do not know of any manufacturers that insert a cast iron sleeve as part of the maching process (but it is possible).

The Sumec 5.5 hp engine has a cast iron cylinder sleeve. The engine is used on the Coleman Proforce 2500.

[Mr__Tommy]

Let's keep in mind here, that we're talking about $300 generators compared to $1500-2000 units. If it blows up in a year or so, buy another one and you're still ahead...

[MrWizard]

ol Bombero--JC wrote:

MrWizard wrote:
I put over 1000 hrs on the 1200 watt unit before buying the 3500 watt RV ready champion and giving the little one away, it sat for 6 months unused, then started on the 3rd pull, when they needed it for a power outage last month.

champion warrants the generator, wehter you buy from kragens, shucks, or tractor supply or cabeles.. doesn't matter

Champion does warrant the generator for one year. After the year is up, then what? Without the cast iron sleeve in the cylinder as the Honda GX series has, I wonder how long the unit will last. I would be more apt to pay $200 more and purchase the chinese genny with the cast iron sleeve. It comes with a two year warranty and is more apt to give you the long term reliability of a Honda.

BUY what you want and be happy with it, I doubt tha many of you put as many hrs on a generator as I do, I fulltime OFF the grid, any brand that I can put a 1000 hrs on in one year, I consider very reliable

ask your self how many yrs it's going to take you to run a genny 1000hrs charging your RV batteries and running your A/C unit

[bobandcat]

The C46540 manual that I have specifies on page 9 to use the 5W-30, 10W-30 and 30W above 70 fegrees F just like the C46535 manual on page 11.

Champion's website is where I found the recommendation for using the 20W, 30W, 40W and 50W oils.

That's why I decided to ask Champion's tech-line for their latest thoughts on the oil grades.

[ib516]

I found the sheet I photocopied from my BIL.

Oil Recommendations section:
SF or SJ SAE
SAE 20 - below freezing + or - 32*F
SAE 30 - Above freezing to 70*F
SAE 40 - 70* --> 100*F
SAE 50 - Over 100*F

This is from the manual for the Champion Gen with the 30A RV plug on it. IIRC, it's the C46540.

There are also different ratings for spark plugs depending on outside temp and length of use.

Intermittent use (less than 1 hour) or for cold climate use (below 60*F)
NGK B6ES
Autolite 4056
Champion N4C
Denso W20ES-U

Medium use (less than 3 hrs) or for 50*F to 80*F
NGK B7ES
Autolite 4054
Champion N3C
Denso W22ES-U

Extreme use (continuous use) Hot climates (80*F to 100*F+)
NGK B8ES
no others listed


This may come in handy for those of us that bought an Elim gen without much of a manual.

[P_J1]

JosephH1 wrote:
I wanted to let folks know that with a coupon code that I found here (wamu10) I purchased the generator for $269.10, which I think is a decent price.

I went this route too (In August, same code, same final price)

I think it is a good price STILL, considering my local TSC has it in stock for $399.99:B