3000W Chinese Gensets Info.

[professor95]

professor95 wrote:
EDIT ADDED 45/5/2013- When this thread started in March of 2005, I never expected to see it survive this long or amass the quantity of information that has been shared here.

In the eight year run of this thread we have amassed almost 10,000 postings and surpassed a million views. This creates somewhat of a dilemma for anyone who has just discovered the forum.

Since the amount of information is virtually overwhelming, I suggest you set your preferences for this thread to read "newest first" and then begin to page backwards.

What you will find in these pages is a wealth of info on virtually any make or model of Chinese manufactured synchronous (non-inverter) generator in the 3,000 watt performance class. Info will include how to rewire series coils to parallel to obtain maximum wattage from a single 120 volt outlet. Tips on further reducing sound levels, how to care for these generators, which ones are "RV ready" and provide the best overall performance for the dollar invested. Which companies NOT to deal with, where the best prices are, how to safely wire the generator into a home or RV, how to check your RV for electrical faults, sources for generator accessories, which 20/30 adapters are safe to use and which are not. How to convert a gasoline generator to propane or NG. This is only the beginning. The forum has a life of its own with the focus sub-topic switching frequently. Still, the main topic of utilizing the amazing, inexpensive Chinese gensets is always there. The amount of creativity and innovation presented in these pages is indicative of the talents shared in the diverse backgrounds of the folks who make up our combined RV community.

Many of the original brands and models of Chinese gensets mentioned in the introduction and early pages of the thread have since disappeared. New EPA and CARB emissions requirements, company bonds assuring the emissions warranty will be honored even if the company goes out of business, and fierce competition in the industry have changed the playing field. Champion Power Equipment has become the apparent "trophy team" providing an ever expanding retail outlet, an ample parts supply, a strong warranty and excellent customer service. CPE has continued to improve their product and now offers a new model (#46538) with exclusive convenience, safety and performance features aimed at the RV market. Big names like Cummins/Onan, Honda and Generac all now have Chinese built open frame synchronous gensets available. Ironically, the prices often found on these gensets has not significantly changed during the past eight years - even with the devaluation of the American Dollar and new EPA/CARB requirements.

I also encourage you to use the search function and even the advanced search options to find information. Key works such as "rewiring", "PowerPro", "Champion", "Onan Homesite", "Duropower", "ETQ", "Jiung Dong or JD", "Tractor Supply", "Costco", "Lowe's" and "Home Depot" are all examples of keywords that will give you specific information on different models being sold by retailers today.

Or, you can fill your glass with your favorite beverage (keep more close by - maybe some munchies as well :D, sit back at your computer, tell your wife (or significant other) that you will see her in the morning and spend the next 10 or so hours reading through the postings.

No one on the forum gets mad if you ask a question that is a repeat. Please do not hesitate to post to the forum. All questions are considered important and those active on the forum will do their best to respond with a valid answer.

Also note we are not out to knock the Honda, Yamaha, Kipor or other brands of high end digital gensets. We recognize the quality of these products and their suitability for quite, efficient RV use. But, there is a flood of reliable, inexpensive and comparatively lower cost gensets coming out of China that are excellent alternative choices for the RVer wanting power to run an air conditioner, microwave, etc. without excessive noise or breaking the budget.

Oh, one last thing. The folks on this forum are true gentlemen. We do not flame one another or the product discussed - period. Ugly contributors usually have their comments and remarks ignored by our masses. It is not a forum to start arguments to obtain a clear win. We do disagree on many issues, but we have all agreed to do that in a respectable manner.

We now have the introduction of more and more inverter gensets. There is a rather extensive thread named "The Official Unofficial Champion 2000i Generator" on this forum. Today, I added info on the new Champion 3100i inverter genset. Discussion on this product may get moved to its own thread at a later date.

Many have looked upon this thread with distain saying Chinese is cheap and doomed to failure. I remember saying exactly the same thing about Japanese products a few decades back. But, over the past eight years the track record for Chinese built generators has shown otherwise.

Please, join us in a fascinating journey down the Chinese built genset road of knowledge.

This is the question I posted that got it all started back in March 2005.......

Randy

For a little over a month now, I have been somewhat intrigued by the availability of a 3000 watt, 6.5 HP generator at Pep Boys and Northern Tool for under $300.00. The engine on this generator looks identical to a Honda 6.5 HP OHV engine. Knowing that the Chinese have become very adept at “cloning” reputable technologies from other manufacturers, I was not surprised at the similarities. Neither store could give me any information on the generator nor did they have a “running” display model.

I have done a little research. This is what I have discovered:

Many of these generators are imported by ELIM International (www.eliminternational.com) out of Buffalo, New York from Jiung Manufacturing in China. (The unit at Northern is identical but carries the JIUNG name.)

The engines are indeed a Chinese knockoff of the popular 6.5 HP 196cc Honda Engine. “Supposedly” Honda has licensed the engine technology to the Chinese manufacturer of the product.

The Chinese company that makes the ELM3000 generators is a rather large, diverse, long-standing company with a reputation for “above average quality” Chinese made products (Jiung Manufacturing). There are many more Chinese companies making almost identical gensets.

The generators at PepBoys do have a six month limited warranty. But, it is only on the engine (not the generator) and requires paying for shipping to and from Buffalo. Probably not a very practical thing to do if you have warranty issues.

ELIM does supply replacement parts (a PDF parts manual is available on the ELIM web site). No prices are given for replacement parts nor is there an “availability listing”.

The generator head itself is a brushless design. The only really significant wear parts in the generator are the bearings – most likely universally available.

The published dB rating is 67 at 23 feet. This is “reasonably” quite for a generator of this size as most comparabl.... The 67 dB rating is the same as Honda gives their 3000 watt CycloInverter with a “look alike” eng...

[cmg3500]

I asked this same question about 6-8 months ago,but no one knew,so here goes again.
I know the Honda 6.5 HP motor has a cast iron cylynder sleve,I was wondering if anyone took apart one of the Chinese clones,& knows if they have cast iron sleves also?I know there are a few different manufacturers,but they all look the same.The one I have is the Lifan engine on a Wen Power Pro 3500.

Thanks

[MrWizard]

rwjejits wrote:
Anyone know of aftermarket suppliers for these 3500w Honda clones? I bought one and everything survived the shipment except the plastic air filter cover. I imagine it is a pretty generic part. It looks identical to msot others mentioned on this site (even the Champion unit looks like it has the same plastic cover...held on with two metal clamps...one top / one bottom).

Gen started fine and I'm happy otherwise. I'm going to check with the supplier first but I'm not holding out much hope as it was an EBay transaction.

Thanks...

you could call champion and ask them the price, i bet they would sell you one as a replacement part

[77charger]

still runnin the red powerise duropower been doing so for at least a year.I have ran the heck out if it last labor day weekend at the river i ran it 3 days straight non stop in 110 deg heat.Also done a couple more 10-15 hrs continuous runs too.

The outlets that come with it are gone they IMO suck,The gas gauge well that only lasted a day or 2,and ai did break a small muffler bracket last month but fixed easily.Also had to replace the starter rope

I removed the org plugs and replaced one with a 30 amp rv plug,then on the other hole i was able to get a 20 amp reg type plug socket.So all is good.These gen do put 30 amps to the plugs when only drawing from one.

As for the motor it runs great still starts on the 1 or second pull.still pretty quiet overall i think i got my 250 bucks worth a while ago i have also checked voltage in the trailer when runnin with the a/c on and off i still get 119 So the verdict i am happy with it to date

[rwjejits]

Anyone know of aftermarket suppliers for these 3500w Honda clones? I bought one and everything survived the shipment except the plastic air filter cover. I imagine it is a pretty generic part. It looks identical to msot others mentioned on this site (even the Champion unit looks like it has the same plastic cover...held on with two metal clamps...one top / one bottom).

Gen started fine and I'm happy otherwise. I'm going to check with the supplier first but I'm not holding out much hope as it was an EBay transaction.

Thanks...

[hgarraway]

I bought one of theses homiers for my dad. It is already wired to deliver full power. Great deal. All you need is the power maximizer rv adapter (about $10) then plug in your rv.

[P_J1]

NYer wrote:
Thats the one, I don't think I can pass it up for $199. My father in law is an electrician, do you think it's possible to have him wire it to run a full 30 amps?

Dunno.

[NYer]

Thats the one, I don't think I can pass it up for $199. My father in law is an electrician, do you think it's possible to have him wire it to run a full 30 amps?

[P_J1]

I see the one you are talking about (Blue in color, right?) That's not it. Not to say that that one isn't decent, it just doesn't come with the 30A RV style receptacle.
It say's $399.99 for the 400 Watt model, that is the one that is very similar to the one talked about in this thread.

[NYer]

Is this 4000 Watt generator( top right)the same as the one that everyone is buying? I can buy this tomorrow at a tool show for $199.


http://www.homier.com/searchresults.asp

***the link doesn't seem to work. It is described as a contractor line 4000W peak generator 6.5hp. DC voltage 12V @8.3 amps. The homier item number is 03237.

[P_J1]

I think the wheel kit is reasonable, I want to say like $25.00.

I would like a cover, I think I saw them on the Champion site too?

[DocDaryl]

After reading all the posts on generators, I purchased the Champion C46540. I am happy to say that it was wonderful having A/C for the first time this summer! I had a 4000 Watt generator from Harbor Freight, but it could not handle the A/C load. This Champion C46540 has no problems. Starts with one pull!

I am looking for wheels for this generator also. I can move it, but it is a bit heavy for one person to haul around.

Thanks for all your information.

[toprudder]

professor95 wrote:
#1. Too much voltage drop through a long extension cord. You should have no more than 30' of #10 copper power cord from the generator to your power opening on the RV. Use of smaller cords, like #12 copper will cause a voltage drop that may keep the AC from starting. Also check for burnt or discolored contacts on the blades of your 30 amp power cord. If they are discolored or the plastic surrounding the plug looks distorted (melted) or the blades are easily wiggled around in the plug you probably have a damaged connection that will offer high resistance to the flow of electrical current. The plug or cord must be promptly replaced.

To add to that, the voltage drop is cumulative. IOW, the power cord may work fine when connected to the local utility, but may not work when connected to the generator. There will be more voltage depression from the generator during an AC start than there will be when operating from the utility power. The power cord may have just enough voltage drop to keep it from working with the generator.

Bottom line: don't assume your power cord is OK just because it works when plugged into your house.

[professor95]

johnnyb226 wrote:
just bought the champion runs everything fine. but when a/c cycles it shuts down
dont know what the heck is wrong?

While this has been explored in the past, it is possibly time to take a look at the problem again.

The bottom line is the Champion RV model has more than enough surge wattage and run wattage to start and power a properly operating 13.5K or even a 15K BTU roof top air conditioner. We know this is true since litteraly thousands of Champion owners are doing exactly that with no problems. Personally, I can start my 15K rooftop unit from the Champion while my microwave is boiling my coffee.

When the Champion will not start an air conditioner there are four things we look for as the root of the problem.

#1. Too much voltage drop through a long extension cord. You should have no more than 30' of #10 copper power cord from the generator to your power opening on the RV. Use of smaller
cords, like #12 copper will cause a voltage drop that may keep the AC from starting. Also check for burnt or discolored contacts on the blades of your 30 amp power cord. If they are discolored or the plastic surrounding the plug looks distorted (melted) or the blades are easily wiggled around in the plug you probably have a damaged connection that will offer high resistance to the flow of electrical current. The plug or cord must be promptly replaced.

#2. Parasitic loads like an electric heater element in the water heater can add additional strain on the generator. Often RVers do not realize the electric element is on. Other parasitic loads that can influence available power are the electric heating element on the absorbtion refrigerator (switch to gas when using the genny) and very high 12V loads on the camper's converter. The converter supplies 12 volts to appliances and lights when hooked to a 120 volt power source which also draws from the generator's available wattage.

#3. Starting an AC takes a lot of wattage. We have learned that Fleetwood opted to NOT install the starting relay and capacitor on some models of air conditioners (guess they thought they could shortchange the customer and save a few bucks?). Other manufacturers could possibly make the same stupid decision. Have your AC checked to be sure it has the start relay and capacitor. If it doesn't, raise HE-double toothpicks with Fleetwood to get them to install it at no charge.

#4. Older models of AC often used a piston type compressor rather than the newer scroll or rotary models. They naturally require more starting current. On these models you may need to replace the existing start relay and capacitor to get consistent start/run performance. The kit is less than $50 and the degree of difficulty to replace it would be about a 2.5 on a 5 point scale.

It is also a good idea to keep in mind that the initial surge wattage available from any gasoline powered generator will be lower than on a conventional power company connection. For this reason, it is important to keep your AC in "good tune" and reduce any parasitic loads in the camper when starting the AC.

[MrWizard]

The only negative was that one of my sons tried to access that ad and get one as well. He got the same error message that some others got and missed out.

when something like that happens, you can send the file as anttachement to email to the other person so they can print it up

or if he is nearby, print 2 so he can have one

[P_J1]

Got mine yesterday. Very nicely packaged, a box within a box actually.

I filled uo the oil, put some gas in it, fired on the FIRST pull. (I guess they test run them?)

Anyway, I got to run it about 40 minutes today, just to get some time on it before I put a load on it. Hooked up my wire, A/C starts up no problem. I let it run for about 2 minutes, figured I would try out the Microwave, no problems there either. I'm suprised people are claiming trouble with just a 13.5 A/C if I can run both items, the charger and three lights?)
I have popped breakers at a few different CG's, looks like this generator puts out what it says it does.

It runs pretty quite too, (I've never owned a generator, so I'm a bad example), but for what it does, and how much I DIDN'T pay for it...............


I'm VERY pleased with my purchase!!!!!!!!