6 v GC batteries versus 12 v lithium deep cycle batteries

[str8shooter_mn]

Disregarding price, is there a distinct advantage having 12 volt deep cycle batteries over the standard 6 volt golf cart batteries. These are for house batteries, have four, wired to provide 12 volts. On a Thor Tuscany pusher.

[pianotuna]

3tons,

I've not blocked anyone for many years. But recently two members called me a liar, one directly and one indirectly. So with sadness, I did block them. It is too bad.

[Itinerant1]

BFL13 wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:
The point being is best not give advice on something you don't understand or just guessing at. This is the regurgitation of bad info getting past as gospel. 😉

You can argue with Trojan then, since you seem to know more than they do.

"Balancing is performed when a parallel group of cells reaches a specified threshold voltage corresponding to almost
100% state-of-charge (SOC). At that point, the highest-charged cells “bleed down” a small amount to enable the remaining groups of cells to “catch up.”

( ISTR 3 tons was able to see that "bleed down" on his monitor, but others will have to confirm)

"At a voltage threshold slightly higher than the balancing point, a current interrupting device (contactor or FET array) will
open, stopping any charging current from flowing.....

" Even after the charger is unplugged, the battery may not be ready for use until it is allowed to balance for
approximately 10 minutes.....

Note: Once a set of batteries have achieved a balanced condition, they should remain balanced through normal use and charging. In order to keep batteries in balance and avoid over-discharge,

***** ensure that batteries not in storage receive a full charge weekly*** "

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Trillium_UsersGuide.pdf

What you stated in the post I responded to was this " I think the balancing can be observed on the Trimetric." now read my response again.

Even with the dropins that don't show individual cell voltages how do you know its truly taking place when all you see is pack voltages?

Copying and pasting shows your abailty to master computer functions but do you understand what you're pasting?

[3_tons]

BFL13 wrote:

Itinerant1 wrote:
The point being is best not give advice on something you don't understand or just guessing at. This is the regurgitation of bad info getting past as gospel. 😉

You can argue with Trojan then, since you seem to know more than they do.

"Balancing is performed when a parallel group of cells reaches a specified threshold voltage corresponding to almost
100% state-of-charge (SOC). At that point, the highest-charged cells “bleed down” a small amount to enable the remaining groups of cells to “catch up.”

( ISTR 3 tons was able to see that "bleed down" on his monitor, but others will have to confirm)

"At a voltage threshold slightly higher than the balancing point, a current interrupting device (contactor or FET array) will
open, stopping any charging current from flowing.....

" Even after the charger is unplugged, the battery may not be ready for use until it is allowed to balance for
approximately 10 minutes.....

Note: Once a set of batteries have achieved a balanced condition, they should remain balanced through normal use and charging. In order to keep batteries in balance and avoid over-discharge,

***** ensure that batteries not in storage receive a full charge weekly*** "

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Trillium_UsersGuide.pdf

Note the curious pattern here whereby the aforementioned SiO2 Interlopers (non-LFP users) tirelessly search for ways to disparage their LFP competition - lol...What also puzzles me is why BFL (repeatedly using false constructs...) chooses to ‘block me’ instead of (when called out) simply addressing me straightforwardly and directly - there are numerous examples of this ill-spirited tactic... I have zero desire to block anyone, and don’t get why one would employ this tactic??

3 tons, open to considering ALL battery formats

[jaycocreek]

Not advice but I did see on the Victron smart shunt as my battery was charging with a Lifepo4 charger,it would get up to 14.4v then it would drop down to 13.6ish (don't remember exactly) then back up to 14.4v...It did this 3 or 4 times then the lifepo4 charger turned green and shut off.

I only "assume" it was balancing...

[BFL13]

Itinerant1 wrote:
The point being is best not give advice on something you don't understand or just guessing at. This is the regurgitation of bad info getting past as gospel. 😉

You can argue with Trojan then, since you seem to know more than they do.

"Balancing is performed when a parallel group of cells reaches a specified threshold voltage corresponding to almost
100% state-of-charge (SOC). At that point, the highest-charged cells “bleed down” a small amount to enable the remaining groups of cells to “catch up.”

( ISTR 3 tons was able to see that "bleed down" on his monitor, but others will have to confirm)

"At a voltage threshold slightly higher than the balancing point, a current interrupting device (contactor or FET array) will
open, stopping any charging current from flowing.....

" Even after the charger is unplugged, the battery may not be ready for use until it is allowed to balance for
approximately 10 minutes.....

Note: Once a set of batteries have achieved a balanced condition, they should remain balanced through normal use and charging. In order to keep batteries in balance and avoid over-discharge,

***** ensure that batteries not in storage receive a full charge weekly*** "

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/Trillium_UsersGuide.pdf

[Itinerant1]

The point being is best not give advice on something you don't understand or just guessing at. This is the regurgitation of bad info getting past as gospel. 😉

[BFL13]

Itinerant1 wrote:
You wouldn't know cell balancing is happening off a monitor that is showing just pack voltage other than it happens at x-voltage, bms's use individual cell voltages not pack voltages.

"If" you can see individual cell voltages you would be able to see the runners that should slow down after they reach the balancing voltage while the slower cells catch-up.

ISTR 3 tons (before I blocked him) describing how he can see his LFP balancing act on his Victron monitor, but can't remember what he was observing it doing. So I ASSume that (whatever it is) could be seen on a Trimetric

time2roll said: "LFP balancing is automatic when convenient. No need to make a deliberate effort."

The LFP guides say to get to full every so often and get them balanced. So if you haven't done it past their suggested intervals, then that would require a deliberate effort to do one.

Beats me how you know you are getting it done if it doesn't show on the monitor. You LFP guys can sort that out.

[StirCrazy]

jaycocreek wrote:
In an actual capacity test with a heat gun,Will only got 1156 watt hours or 93+ amp hours out of the Battleborn 100ah battery..I only posted because someone here keeps saying Battleborn is 120ah but test clearly show it is not...

ya it is deciving also, when he did his tear down of a battleborn he said the cells added up to more than 100 ah, in his capacity test the bms shut off the battery at 107 ah ( believe if my old memory is remembering the right video) and he figures that was the limit they had it set for. it gets confusing when you have a BMS that ou can set for shut off points and charg limits because a draw down test wont tell you the actual AH of the physical battery but only what the settings will let you use.

Steve

[StirCrazy]

pianotuna wrote:

I'm sure Stircrazy would subscribe to this view point--but BattleBorn deliberately derates their 100 amp-hour to 100 from a "real" 120 amp-hour.

So far as I am aware the rest of the Li makers don't protect the end user this way.

Could it be the battery management systems are keeping the bottom 20% from being used?

I know some are, it may be to protect the bottom end, but lets talk about this.. people are misconceving why you would want to do that. there are two reasons that stand out in my mind.

1 at a 100% depth of discharge the life span on LFP seams to be 3000 to 4000 cycles depending on the manufacture and format, still a long time. by limiting your usage to what people are thinking as the bottom and top you can raise that cycle life time to 6000 to 8000 cycles. and one more thing about the cycle life span of LFP its not like a LA battery where after you hit the cycle life san the battery is pretty much useless and only holds a surface charge, a LFP after it cycles out will still have 80% of the original capacity and will hold that for a long long time unless you physicly damage the battery, which is why you can buy used cells very cheep if you happy with 80% of the capacity.

this leads directly into the second reason a company could be doing this, by building 20% more into the battery if some one is very hard on a battery it will maintain the rated capacity after it cycles out and no one can come back on them and say your 100ah battery only puts out 80ah.

I think I have stated before its all to do with limiting there warenty exposure.

Steve

[time2roll]

LFP balancing is automatic when convenient. No need to make a deliberate effort.
Little to no thought is needed compared to lead-acid.

[Itinerant1]

You wouldn't know cell balancing is happening off a monitor that is showing just pack voltage other than it happens at x-voltage, bms's use individual cell voltages not pack voltages.

"If" you can see individual cell voltages you would be able to see the runners that should slow down after they reach the balancing voltage while the slower cells catch-up.

[BFL13]

Others who have LFP will have to confirm, but AFAIK, the 13.7 is too low for the cell balancing to get started, and that needs to be done every so often. I think the balancing can be observed on the Trimetric.

The 14.4 BMS action seen might be the balancing starting, but if you are driving and stop, I don't know how it can finish balancing.

BB says:
1. passive balancing process is activated by the BMS at the top of each charge cycle, when the battery voltage exceeds around 14V. This ensures that all the cells remain at the same state of charge, which helps for pack longevity and performance.

2.For your Bulk/Absorption stage, the ideal voltage is between 14.2v-14.6v. For full charge and BALANCE, the absorption mode should be set to last for at least 20 minutes per battery (for multiple batteries in parallel).

[steveh27]

I have two 100AH Lifepo4 batteries hooked to make 200 ah available. They have a BMS. I have a PD4635 convertor charger. It works well with these. IF I want to charge them fully I push in the boost button. But I never do that. The charger gets them up to 13.7 volts.

My 130 amp alternator goes through a battery isolator then two 40 amp breakers. It seems to work well. My Trimetric monitor shows the alternator will get them up to 14.4 volts then the BMS shuts down the charging. (At least I think that is what's happening.) I drove 800 miles and it went well.

I have yet to use my portable 120 watt solar suitcase which I mainly use boondocking in the winter in FLA.

[Almot]

jaycocreek wrote:
Will Prowse explains somethings very good and others not so much...For someone completely new to lifepo4 he is about the only one trying to explain things...

Battleborn capacity test with heat gun

Confirms that Li available capacity = nominal capacity, more-less.

Offbrand Ruixu - or, let's say, Chinese brand - in this video came up with a slightly higher available capacity per same nominal 100AH.

He is talking how Ruixu will die if you freeze it, but the difference in minimum charging temp btw Ruixu and Battleborn is minor, 25F Battleborn and 32F Ruixu. Minimum temps for discharging and storage are the same 4F for both.

Since the time of this video Battleborn price dropped a little but Chinese brands dropped a lot, you can get 100AH now for less than $600 - this is from established US resellers, not China-direct. They will eventually kill US Li brands same as they killed US and European solar panels. Though I believe Battleborn are only assembled in the US.

[3_tons]

“ 1) You need to disable Float mode in converter or set it below 13V. Cheaper converters don't have this option and neither do cheap solar chargers. Even not very cheap "Li-compatible" solar chargers will require setting a custom charging profile because the chances that its preset Li profile will match your Li battery are slim.

2) Equalization MUST be disabled. Luckily, most chargers allow this.”

Once the LFP is charged (to whatever desired user acceptable level - a LFP thingy...) with an existing multi-stage converter-charger, all you need to do is shut off the converter-charger at the breaker panel (or solar charge controller)...Another option (if so inclined...) would be to install a disconnect switch at the battery terminal, and keep the onboard converter-charger active, Presto, problems solved...

3 tons