Adding Inverter for dry camping

[jcarlilesiu]

I would like to add an additional battery (have one group 27 now), possibly a solar charging system and an inverter.

I hate that the 120V outlets don't work on battery power. Seems crazy you can't charge a cell phone.

Anyway, I would like to an an inverter. My goal would be to wire it into the system with an automatic transfer switch for shore power/battery power.

Seems awfully involved.

Is the better option adding an inverter with a dedicated female 30 amp outlet on the side of the rv near the front where the batteries are, and simply plug the shore power cable into the inverter when needed?

Seems easy enough, but not "clean". I would really rather add an inverter and transfer switch. Has anybody one that that can explain the process? Does the converter need to stay? Can it go? If the converter is removed, how do the 12V outlets and lights and water pump run? Will they run off of battery power without the converter when on shore power?

Im confused about that one aspect.

[Huntindog]

mena661 wrote:

jcarlilesiu wrote:
I'm liking the idea of pulling the converter/charger and installing an inverter/charger.

What about my issue with the distance from the batteries to the converter being about 16 feet?

Put the inverter/charger close to the batteries and run the 120V wire to wherever you need it to go.

X2
Remember the history of Edison's direct current vs Westinghouse's AC current. AC current won for the very same reason. DC current suffers much more from voltage loss in long wire runs. AC... Not so much.

[mena661]

jcarlilesiu wrote:
I'm liking the idea of pulling the converter/charger and installing an inverter/charger.

What about my issue with the distance from the batteries to the converter being about 16 feet?

Put the inverter/charger close to the batteries and run the 120V wire to wherever you need it to go.

[jcarlilesiu]

I'm liking the idea of pulling the converter/charger and installing an inverter/charger.

What about my issue with the distance from the batteries to the converter being about 16 feet?

[mena661]

Veebyes, usable solar is WAY less expensive than an inverter/charger. Last time I checked a Magnum or other nice inverter/charger was well over $1000. I can get 300-400W for under $500. And 300-400W is more than enough for most dry campers. I do agree that if you forest camp, solar won't cut it but you don't have to camp in the desert for it to work good, ask our solar users in Canada.

[Veebyes]

I'll start by saying that I am not a big fan of a solar system. It is expensive & has limited power yield dependent on the panel size & your preferences for campsites. Great if you are a desert camper. Not great if you are a forest camper.

Being first & foremost a boater, I looked at the 12V system of the trailer with boaters eyes. Boats don't have converter/chargers. Boats have inverter/chargers. Inverters & chargers can be separate units or combined as one. My boat had separate units. The charger had facilities to charge 3 battery banks. Boats get all of their 12V needs from their battery banks.

With that in mind my trailer converter/charger came out & in went an inverter/charger. The two piddly group 24 12V batterys came out too & in went a 4D AGM which has about the same amperage as your 2 group 27s will have.

Through a bus bar the 2kw pure sine wave inverter charger gets its power directly from the battery. The thicker the feed line the better. The AC side from the inverter/charger goes to the main feed to the 120V AC circuit breaker box.

Theoretically everything can be powered by the inverter this way. NO it can't. Not if you want the battery bank to last the night.

When setting up for dry camping the first thing that is done is the turning off of circuit breakers for the A/C, water heater, built in 120VAC heaters & fridge. Now the inverter can be turned on & it will power all of the outlets in the trailer with PURE sine wave AC, the same as of the grid.

Fridge & water heater stay on propane. Air is not used. Microwave is used very sparingly. To conserve battery power a stovetop coffee maker is used.

We choose to turn the inverter on as needed manually. We could leave it on automatic switch over but those big power users must be turned off.

Installing an inverter/charger is not hard. Instead of buying a solar system use the money to get a better inverter/charger. Read up on why get a pure sine wave vs cheaper non pure sine wave. It could save something very voltage sensitive & expensive getting fried.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Try a 12-volt toaster. The power cord is a bit much and a person has to babysit the operation but out jumps golden brown toast.

[Huntindog]

I not only "get" what and why you are trying to do... I have done it.
My original reason for doing it was different though.
I had installed a winegard satellite dish, that raised up and locked onto the sattelites with a push of a button... Really slick, as I can have HD TV about as fast as I can grab a beer.
Reading the instructions, there was an option to have it stow automatically, preventing me from forgetting and driving off with it up. But it needed full time AC power to make it work.
So I decided on a 600 watt model, so I could run a few other things. I have two dog collars and two remotes, a laptop, and a drill and two phones needing to be kept charged.

There are transfer switches that are made justfor this purpose. They turn off the power to the converter when the inverter is on. And turn it back on when the generator is on.
IIRC, I used one made by Go Power.
I installed it behind the WFCO panel, so I can't go look at it very easy. But there are others that do the same thing.
The inverter needs to be mounetd as close to the batteries as possible due to the thick battery cables it needs. The run the AC power from it to the transfer switch.
It is super convienient to have all outlets powered at all times.
From know on, it is a must have in all of my future TTs.

[time2roll]

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-inverters/pro-series-inverters.aspx

That is modified sine wave that could cause trouble with coffee maker electronic controls and I have heard Apple products don't like the MSW. Most things do work fine on MSW. I recommend SW because everything works as designed.

If the 120v power run is long consider a separate transfer switch so you do not have to pull wire both ways.

Initial post was about small items... coffee maker is about 800 to 1500 watts depending on model. So a little more involved pulling wire.

I recommend a small transfer switch for each branch circuit you want powered vs the additional sub panel you mentioned above.

[Ron3rd]

The transfer switch is a great way to go and many install them. But I did not go that route for 3 reasons;

I did not want to spend the $$ on one.

I did not want to wire it into the converter, though I'm capable of doing so, but was going to make the wiring more time consuming and complicated.

Transfer Switches "can" go bad.

As I mentioned above, I installed an external receptacle and plug the shore cord into it. It powers the entire trailer and I have one less component to worry about. Either way works fine.

[jcarlilesiu]

smkettner wrote:
Yes but you are making it more complex than needed for 300w or less.

Complex, or convenient?

I guess I like creating things that work. I could plug in an inverter off the cigarette lighter in my car I suppose. I want to be able to plug a laptop or coffee maker into a provided outlet and it just works.

Anyway, it looks like this inverter with built in transfer switch does exactly what I need and the install looks pretty straight forward.

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-inverters/pro-series-inverters.aspx

The only problem now is that the batteries are on the A-frame at the front of the 16 foot camper, and the existing converter/panel is at the very rear of the interior of the camper. I need to mount the inverter near the batteries at the front, but tie into the existing system at the back.

Luckily, I have cabinets/seating running down the entire length of the camper on one side, but then I have to cross the door area. The other side is convenient, except I have to cross the head.

I love challenges.

[time2roll]

Yes but you are making it more complex than needed for 300w or less.

[jcarlilesiu]

I guess my perspective is, campers should be built to be self sustaining.

Having operating outlets from battery power seems like a no brainer.

I bought the camper to both camp in, and tinker around in, so this will be one of my first projects. Getting a viable inverter solution installed. I like the idea of a seamless one with a transfer switch.

Still just not sure how to wire that up to the existing converter. If I am understanding correctly, a new breaker panel should be installed which will have both the A/C and the Converter on it, which is outside of the inverters supply to the existing panel. From what I understand, when the shore power is disconnected and the transfer switch flips over to inverter power, that will prevent the converter/charger and the A/C from operating, all seamlessly.

Correct?

[Ron3rd]

BFL13 wrote:
Everybody seems to say you can just fire up the Honda when you need to run the toaster or kettle. Nope! Here, the provincial parks have generator hours from 9-11am and from 6-8pm. In the winter it is dark at 6-8pm so that's out unless you like to go out there in the dark and rain. That leaves 9-11am.

So unless you sleep in, you will want to make your breakfast toast well before 9am and you will want an electric toaster instead of the bread-burning torture rack that goes on the propane stove and sets off the fire alarm, waking everybody up for miles around at 0-dark-thirty.

So it is absolutely vital that you have an inverter to run the electric toaster, and that you have enough juice in the battery bank that morning to run the thing.

X2, all the state parks in Calif have "quiet hours" and that normally coincides with when the grandkids want to watch a dvd or tv. Thus the need for the inverter. Only wish I would have done it 5 years ago.

[joebedford]

Toast is bad for you.

[pianotuna]

Hi BFL13,

So add a remote start to the Honda 3000? No need to stumble around in the dark then.