Batteries/solar not holding up, troubleshooting help please

[twvette]

I have no luck getting batteries to hold up it seems. Had a couple different RV's and different setups too (wet cell, lifeline golf cart, gel deep cycle batteries)and none have ever held up well.

Anyways, here is what I have now:
- Onan 5500 gen
- Iota DLS-45 converter
- Three Optima Bluetop D31M (less than a year old)
- Large solar panel (or maybe it is even two combined together?)
- Shell Solar RV 20 solar controller /monitor
- Only camp in AZ so almost always get great solar

Worked great in beginning but seem to be on downward spiral. I now can't get through even a mildly cold night (mid 40's) of heater use only without them dying. I have had to run the generator much more even with the solar system to get/keep them fairly charged whereas before the solar panel would generally give me full recovery from typical day and night use.

Here are some observations:
- I previously got 13.4 volts or higher when running the generator but now only see 13.0, and settles at about 12.7v a little while after shutting off generator
- When shutting off generator I never get much more than an "OK" status on my monitor whereas as before I would typically be at "GOOD" or a few LEDs above at least for a while
- Connected an automotive style battery charger after charging with generator for a while and it also claimed the batteries were fully charged.

Here are some questions/concerns:
- Is the solar system overcharging my batteries slowly killing them?
- I do not have the Iota IQ4 smart charge option as far as I can tell, perhaps this will help? Seems like a long shot as had this in previous RV and did not see any real improvement but maybe would prevent Onan 5500 from improperly charging gel batteries this time around?
- Generator/Iota DLS-45 issue in general? All my RV's have had this same setup
- Is the Shell Solar RV 20 junk or good? I did not purchase or install this system.
- Can anyone tell from pics below which solar panels I might have? I have no clue on make/model/output and no markings on them even underneath!
- Maybe I am leaking back power through the solar panels at night?
- Would putting an ammeter inline help figure this out? Maybe a Doc Wattson http://www.rc-electronics-usa.com/ammeters/rv-battery-monitor.html
- How to test my batteries to see if they are still good? Maybe only one battery is bad?







Thanks for any help!

[jrnymn7]

Piano,

Recently Bend informed me I was not using my Trimetric to it's fullest. There are many settings to consider. I admit I need to get better acquainted with how to properly program it; beyond the basic two or three settings; especially seeing that I'm introducing solar to the mix.

I do agree they are very pricey.

[jrnymn7]

Salvo, how does one who pays little to no attention to their batteries recognize when performance has declined? Does not monitoring Ah's help one see how the charging process is performing?

[Salvo]

Don't be a slave to your batteries! It's no big deal how many AH's are consumed or replaced. It is what it is. If performance declines after 4 years then get new ones. They're a commodity item, about the cost of a tank of gas. It's not worth loosing any sleep over them.

A panel volt/amp meter tells me all I need to know regarding the status of the batteries. I've been boondocking for 8 years with this rig, about 150 days per year. I doubt a AH meter makes the batteries last longer.

[pianotuna]

Hi jrnymn,

With respect, the Trimetric and most other amp-hour counters have problems.

The Trimetric has no Peukert Calculation built in. That is why I prefer the idea of the Victron, which does do that calculation.

With most if not all meters you have to enter the total number of amp-hours of capacity in the bank. Unfortunately, this is a moving target. I.e. temperature affects capacity.

They are a dull knife--but I guess better a dull knife than no knife at all. I believe they are overpriced, too.

An ammeter and a volt meter can be used to tell the owner what is currently happening to the bank.

As most of my consumption is 120 volt AC I do have a watt meter. It does count what my usage for the day is.

Anyone know of a good watt hour counter for 12 volt DC?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

To a zookeeper the difference between regional monkey species is obvious. It's when rhe zookeeper runs around and tells visitors they're ignorant for not knowing as well, is when my eyebrows raise.

[jrnymn7]

How would an amp meter help me monitor how many Ah's I've consumed or replaced? Only an Ah meter can do this. Moreover, the Trimetric, and those like it, do the job of both, as well as serve as a single digit Volt meter.

In my experience, a tool is only a toy when in the wrong hands.

[Snowman9000]

A toy that simplifies your life.

[pnichols]

Salvo wrote:
Amp hour meter is just a toy. An amp meter has a lot more bite.

How right you are Sal!

All I use for my RV batteries is a voltmeter and an ammeter. I just put voltages on the batteries always at or above their lowest recommended float voltage and always at or below their highest recommended boost volage.

When the ammeter reads zero - they're fully charged. It takes a long time for it to read zero using float voltages and a short time for it to read zero using boost voltages ... I'm in complete control by varying the applied charging voltages.

After more than 8 years of this I did a load test on the batteries last week and they acted the same as they did when new. However, over that time period the batteries have spent thousands of hours on float voltages in storage with the ammeter reading zero.

I love K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) ... or I'm missing some subtle and non-simple complex factor that is going to bite me hard on a camping trip one of these days when I least expect it.

[Salvo]

Amp hour meter is just a toy. An amp meter has a lot more bite.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

If the system plays Layback Lenny short of full charge the amp hour meter will shout it out. This is why I like them so much - they reduce guesswork and head scratching.

[Salvo]

You may have cable issues. How far away is converter from batteries? What size wire?

You need to measure voltage directly at the Iota terminals and then quickly at battery terminals while the Iota is in boost mode.

[BFL13]

twvette wrote:
Batteries have held the last two nights well and in general.

However, since initially plugging in the IQ4 module and seeing the 14.7v bulk charge with generator on I have never seen that again or even the 14.1v it initially stepped down to. The batteries in theory we worse or atleast at a lower voltage than when it initially gave me the 14.7v. What I get now it usually 13.7v and occasionally drops down to 13.4v. Is this $20 IQ4 perhaps really smart to know based on things other than voltage level that I perhaps don't need the 14.7v or 14.1v and that the 13.7v is ok to bring them back up or is it not doing what it should and I am again on a slow path to undercharging them? FYI, I did unplug the IQ4 to see if that would perhaps "reset" it to get the 14.7v again but nothing changed.

Or just maybe 🙂 , the IQ4 fixed the problem so now you don't get that low that it kicks in?

Just watch your "morning voltage" for a few days and let things settle in before going to panic stations. 😞

[time2roll]

AFAIK each time the IOTA is powered up with the IQ4 it should reach the 14.7 for at least 10 minutes, then 14.1 and 13.7 volts.

[twvette]

Batteries have held the last two nights well and in general.

However, since initially plugging in the IQ4 module and seeing the 14.7v bulk charge with generator on I have never seen that again or even the 14.1v it initially stepped down to. The batteries in theory we worse or atleast at a lower voltage than when it initially gave me the 14.7v. What I get now it usually 13.7v and occasionally drops down to 13.4v. Is this $20 IQ4 perhaps really smart to know based on things other than voltage level that I perhaps don't need the 14.7v or 14.1v and that the 13.7v is ok to bring them back up or is it not doing what it should and I am again on a slow path to undercharging them? FYI, I did unplug the IQ4 to see if that would perhaps "reset" it to get the 14.7v again but nothing changed.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

The Victron gauges are a bit better than the trimetric--and cheaper as well.