Battery observations

[Gjac]

I have 2 6V Sams Club GC batteries in my MH that are 13 years old. I went to charge them a month ago with my "smart charger" and it would not charge due to a sulfated cell(F2). So I figured it was time for new batteries. After multiple attempts I decided to try my old Magnetech 950 "dumb charger", after several hours with a 5 amp 13.2 v charge I was then able to use my 40 amp B&D charger again and it took a charge until it said FUL. I then continued to charge with the Magnatech for several more days prior to a camping trip to NH. I was thinking after 13 years these batteries lost a lot of capacity and figured I would have to use the genset to recharge during the week, I only dry camp. I don't watch TV, no internet or cell phone service where we camp so just lights, WP, refer and WH usage. To my amazement I lasted a week without recharging and was at 50% SOC, which was what I always saw when the batteries were newer. Usually I recharge over night with the B&D but the 5 hr drive home seemed to fully charge the batteries. They are still at 12.6 volts after sitting for a week with no charge (I don't keep a trickle charger on them just recharge when they get to 80% SOC.) So I will see if they survive the winter with no charge for another camping season. I realize most batteries die from sulfation(under charging) but I don't hear much discussion about constant or float charging and plate sheading.

[Gjac]

Lynnmor wrote:

3 tons wrote:
My BD/Vector 1093 mostly just throws F codes and serves mostly as a pricy paper weight. Thankfully I have several other chargers that can sometimes fool the BD out of it’s predictable slumber...

3 tons

It will not charge a completely dead battery, charge with a cheap charger first.

I found this out several years ago when a repair shop in Mt. had my MH for 4 months and let the battery run down. When I flew back in Nov the battery was dead and partially frozen and the B&D would not charge it but after an hr or so with the Magnatech charger at 13.2v and 5 amps it worked fine.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Good luck in Californiastan. All chargers must be automatic and shippers are forbidden to ship manual chargers. When a simple TIMER would have satisfied their complaints. Pretty fartsmellers, Sacramento.

[Lynnmor]

3 tons wrote:
My BD/Vector 1093 mostly just throws F codes and serves mostly as a pricy paper weight. Thankfully I have several other chargers that can sometimes fool the BD out of it’s predictable slumber...

3 tons

It will not charge a completely dead battery, charge with a cheap charger first.

[3_tons]

My BD/Vector 1093 mostly just throws F codes and serves mostly as a pricy paper weight. Thankfully I have several other chargers that can sometimes fool the BD out of it’s predictable slumber...

3 tons

[Gjac]

BFL13 wrote:

Gjac wrote:

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
I was thinking after 13 years these batteries lost a lot of capacity and figured I would have to use the genset to recharge during the week, (as) I only dry camp. I don't watch TV, no internet or cell phone service where we camp so just lights, WP, refer and WH usage.

...but the 5 hr drive home seemed to fully charge the batteries.

They likely NEVER got fully recharged. You should put them back on your smart charger and get them as close as possible to 100%.

They are still holding at 12.6 v after a week with no charger. I don't think the "smart charger" fully charges them. I notice I get a few more days of dry camping when I use the Magnatech charger to float the batteries for a few days before camping after the B&D says FUL. Also I think my 180 amp alternator pumps more amps in after my B&D says FUL. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this about their smart chargers?

The Vector/B&D chargers get them to about 97% SOC and say FUL. Their manual says you then set it to the low amp setting (2 or 4 depending on model) and run it again till it says FUL. Now you will be closer to true full. Of course you can tell with your hydrometer what the truth is.

With my 6s (same with 12v 27s) and the VEC1093DBD I just set it to the 4amp and push Equalize (flashing green light). It brings them to what would be FUL at 14.8, then it switches by itself to Equalize at 15.7 and does that till it says FUL. Hydrometer shows that they are now actually full.

Love my 1093! 🙂 Best thing is you can leave it to do all that overnight by itself and check the SG in the morning. You don't have to be there keeping an eye on progress.

Yeah, I love this 40 amp charger also, best $50 I ever spent when WM stopped selling them. I also like this old Magnatech converter/charger for topping off the batteries. For years I have heard on here how they are batteries boilers and will ruin your batteries. For the life of me I can't figure out how 13.6 v when new and now down to 13.2 v after 25 years of service can boil your batteries? 25 years of service with no maintenance or repairs is pretty good for an RV system. I will have to try that 4 amp trick I did not know that.

[Gjac]

wopachop wrote:

Gjac wrote:
My reason for not keeping a trickle charge on them constantly or over winter is I think the more you charge them the more you wear the plates down. Again I have not heard much discussion about that just MHO based on my experience.

The Trojan battery guide mentions that topic. A constant trickle charge is not the ideal storage method. I made a post about it a year ago because i found it interesting as well.

It seems many on here keep a constant charge on their batteries as a best practice, glad to see others think differently. I just wonder if anyone has determined or read how much plate is shed by a constant charge over x amount of time?

[BFL13]

Gjac wrote:

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
I was thinking after 13 years these batteries lost a lot of capacity and figured I would have to use the genset to recharge during the week, (as) I only dry camp. I don't watch TV, no internet or cell phone service where we camp so just lights, WP, refer and WH usage.

...but the 5 hr drive home seemed to fully charge the batteries.

They likely NEVER got fully recharged. You should put them back on your smart charger and get them as close as possible to 100%.

They are still holding at 12.6 v after a week with no charger. I don't think the "smart charger" fully charges them. I notice I get a few more days of dry camping when I use the Magnatech charger to float the batteries for a few days before camping after the B&D says FUL. Also I think my 180 amp alternator pumps more amps in after my B&D says FUL. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this about their smart chargers?

The Vector/B&D chargers get them to about 97% SOC and say FUL. Their manual says you then set it to the low amp setting (2 or 4 depending on model) and run it again till it says FUL. Now you will be closer to true full. Of course you can tell with your hydrometer what the truth is.

With my 6s (same with 12v 27s) and the VEC1093DBD I just set it to the 4amp and push Equalize (flashing green light). It brings them to what would be FUL at 14.8, then it switches by itself to Equalize at 15.7 and does that till it says FUL. Hydrometer shows that they are now actually full.

Love my 1093! 🙂 Best thing is you can leave it to do all that overnight by itself and check the SG in the morning. You don't have to be there keeping an eye on progress.

[wopachop]

Gjac wrote:
My reason for not keeping a trickle charge on them constantly or over winter is I think the more you charge them the more you wear the plates down. Again I have not heard much discussion about that just MHO based on my experience.

The Trojan battery guide mentions that topic. A constant trickle charge is not the ideal storage method. I made a post about it a year ago because i found it interesting as well.

[Gjac]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Gjac wrote:
I was thinking after 13 years these batteries lost a lot of capacity and figured I would have to use the genset to recharge during the week, (as) I only dry camp. I don't watch TV, no internet or cell phone service where we camp so just lights, WP, refer and WH usage.

...but the 5 hr drive home seemed to fully charge the batteries.

They likely NEVER got fully recharged. You should put them back on your smart charger and get them as close as possible to 100%.

They are still holding at 12.6 v after a week with no charger. I don't think the "smart charger" fully charges them. I notice I get a few more days of dry camping when I use the Magnatech charger to float the batteries for a few days before camping after the B&D says FUL. Also I think my 180 amp alternator pumps more amps in after my B&D says FUL. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this about their smart chargers?

[theoldwizard1]

Gjac wrote:
I was thinking after 13 years these batteries lost a lot of capacity and figured I would have to use the genset to recharge during the week, (as) I only dry camp. I don't watch TV, no internet or cell phone service where we camp so just lights, WP, refer and WH usage.

...but the 5 hr drive home seemed to fully charge the batteries.

They likely NEVER got fully recharged. You should put them back on your smart charger and get them as close as possible to 100%.

[BFL13]

The "pulse" desulphation (frequency of, that broke down the sulphate) was pretty much found to be bogus 10 or 15 years ago. Suprised people still doing that. Vector/B&D had that mode back then and I used to do it. Turned out not to be any use.

However the last set of chargers before they went tits up also had an Equalize mode which used high voltage. That does work, and I still use that with mine (VEC1093DBD). You can also use that method with a PowerMax LK model or with some other chargers, inverter/chargers, and solar controllers.

On floating 6s, there was a school of thoght back then that 6s should not be floated. Xantrex had a choice in their converter to make the 3rd stage optional for that reason.

The OP may have discovered that was valid- not enough evidence to confirm. It was to do with high SG electrolyte vs low SG and the purpose of the battery for deep cycling (high SG) or for "stand by" use (low SG)

On Mex's advice re short gen times, 50-80s, and high amp charging , I am still with the program! 🙂

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Interest in flooded batteries has waned to the vanishing point.
Years ago I furnished a lot of information to this site which was then proprietary.

Included was a rather concise interpretation of using an adjustable voltage but constant potential charger called a Megawatt. They are 29 or 36 amp dependent on model.

Times change. And now there is little interest in flooded batteries, minimum charge time, and maintaining batteries for the most longevity.

I then opened up the Megawatt and upgraded the weakest links inside, added an external voltage control and finished up by redesigning the unit into a 56 amp unit.

[Gjac]

ajriding wrote:
13 years is impressive and sounds like you do not maintain them as well as you should.
6-7 yrs is a long batt lifespan.

Yes, do keep a trickle charger on them over the winter.

I have a little device called a "de-sulphator" or something. Plugs into any DC outlet in the car, RV and desulphates the batteries. I can't substantiate if it works or not or what it is doing. It is supposed to keep the crud off the plates, i think it sends a little pulse to the battery to "shake" or "vibrate" or in some way remove the scale. It has been years so I forgot all the claims and details.

I run it in the truck every month or so and in the Rv, but not constantly.

It only works when batt is at full charge (or being charged, so over 13v)

I thought I would throw this tidbit in..

My reason for not keeping a trickle charge on them constantly or over winter is I think the more you charge them the more you wear the plates down. Again I have not heard much discussion about that just MHO based on my experience. They have only been discharged once below 50 % but in general the deepest discharges are between 50-60% SOC. Yes I run the desulphater on mine also and on occasion and I also equalize.

[edbehnke]

just buy new batteries...will avoid issues.