Battery Upgrade

[peirek]

First let me set the stage. We boondock 1-2 weeks a year. The rest of the time the trailer is plugged into shore power either in storage or at campground with hookups. We have one house GP27 wet cell battery in a rear storage compartment. The battery is in a sealed box and is vented bottom and top. The house battery is approximately 8' from charger (WFCO WF-8935AN-P) connected with 6AWG wire (I am estimating ~10' of wire). I have been taking a second deep cycle battery and connecting to front vehicle connector. This is approximately 20' from charger. I know this is not at all efficient and is mildly effective, but it has served us ok. We run the genny (Honda EU2000) for ~4 hours a day which gets the batteries back up but not fully charged.

I would like to add a second battery to the rear storage compartment but have to consider venting etc. I am leaning towards using two AGMs (6V or 12V?) so as to not worry about gassing and venting. The compartment is big enough to contain both batteries and it will still have a vent top and bottom.

I am looking for guidance on AGM batteries (6V or 12V) and brand. I have learned the Trojans are the best but are they needed for my situation (1-2 wks a year)? I suspect upgrades to the charger will be in order so would like opinions on that. I believe Progressive Dynamics is the preferred brand. I also believe the 14.8 is recommended for AGMs. Is the 6AWG sufficient for a 45A upgrade?

Thank you for your suggestions, directions, and opinions in advance.

[BFL13]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi

Even better may be a boondocker converter:

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-Converters-_c_154.html this charges at a maximum voltage of 14.6

I'd look closely at the Iota line as well:

http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-Series-12-Volt_c_144.html this charges at a maximum voltage of 14.76 with the "IQ4" module.

Make sure the wire from the converter to battery bank is capable of the maximum current output.

peirek wrote:
I am starting to lean towards the following upgrade:
1) Upgrade converter to PD 4655 MBA ($193.00). This will enable bulk mode charging (14.4v).


Always welcome critique and opinions.

You don't get a Charge Wizard with the earlier standard Boondocker/PowerMax converters. You would want a previous adjustable voltage model or the new standard PowerMax "LK" model that is replacing the older model.

The LK has adjustable voltage from 13-16.5 and that makes it way better than the Charge Wizard with its limited voltage options.

bestconverters is not showing he has transitioned to the new LK models yet. You can get the PM3-LKs on Amazon

[Crabbypatty]

You may consider that someday you might boon dock for a longer period of time. We boon 3-4 weeks a year. Two Trojan t-125's works for us. Sold my first TT with 10 year old T125's, still going strong. Year four with our new to us TT with two new Trojan T125's going strong. We added 428 watts of solar, which charge on a cloudy days as well, just finished a 5 day and a 4 day boon dock, brought the genny, never used it. I should have solared from the beginning. Ive found you get what you pay for and Trojans arent cheap $400 for the two, but if you amortize that over 10 years its nothing.
Maybe this will help you. Happy Trails

[Cydog15]

That 4655L MBA is what I would use

[pianotuna]

Hi

Even better may be a boondocker converter:

http://www.bestconverter.com/Boondocker-Converters-_c_154.html this charges at a maximum voltage of 14.6

I'd look closely at the Iota line as well:

http://www.bestconverter.com/DLS-Series-12-Volt_c_144.html this charges at a maximum voltage of 14.76 with the "IQ4" module.

Make sure the wire from the converter to battery bank is capable of the maximum current output.

peirek wrote:
I am starting to lean towards the following upgrade:
1) Upgrade converter to PD 4655 MBA ($193.00). This will enable bulk mode charging (14.4v).


Always welcome critique and opinions.

[time2roll]

peirek wrote:
I am starting to lean towards the following upgrade:
1) Upgrade converter to PD 4655 MBA ($193.00). This will enable bulk mode charging (14.4v).
2) Add another vented battery box and tee into existing exhaust (top vent). I found a box on ebay that has a lower side vent that should enable connection directly to the existing box. This will enable use of that lower vent preventing drilling another hole in the trailer floor. https://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Thick-Plastic-Vent-Side-Top-Bottom-Battery-Box-RV-Boat-Vapor-Barrier-Strip/231714755057?_trkparms=aid%3D999002%26algo%3DURGENT.LUI%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D52502%26meid%3D07233436ce914e26844930b8e191c21a%26pid%3D100043%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26so%3Dcart%26sd%3D151798543332%26itm%3D231714755057&_trksid=p5713.c100043.m2062
3) Purchase 2 Duracell GC2 6V batteries from Sams ($93.88).

Always welcome critique and opinions.

The GC2 is about an inch taller than group 24, 27, 29. Verify inside dimensions before you click and buy.

Otherwise good to go on the 4655 and Duracell.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"Does a GC battery allow deeper discharge or do they just have more capacity to start with?"

You need to specify what type of construction. GC flooded batteries are fundamentally different from auto jar batteries.

Golf car AGM batteries have taller plates of the same construction as their car jar batteries.

Flooded GC batteries can tolerate and recover from far worse abuse than can the same campany's car jar RV battery. It's more a question of durability than capacity.

AGM batteries have better voltage level retention under load compared to any flooded RV or GC battery.

If a person believes that there isn't a universe of difference between a premium brand and a membership warehouse battery then they are going to learn the hard way. This does not apply to weekend warriors who do not tax capacity and performance.

What is almost never discussed is how easy or not a flooded battery gets recharged. The difference is generator run time versus ampere hours returned not just claimed or believed. I've seen newer bargain batteries act like aged premium batteries in ease of recharging.

Driving all the way across town to save ten cents a gallon on gasoline reveals a person's mental structure. Fussy about food, near superstitious about tires. Picky about flashlight battery brands, wait a week and pay triple for a haircut but then drive-across-town for a gasoline bargain battery (metaphor for battery knowledge).

[peirek]

I am starting to lean towards the following upgrade:
1) Upgrade converter to PD 4655 MBA ($193.00). This will enable bulk mode charging (14.4v).
2) Add another vented battery box and tee into existing exhaust (top vent). I found a box on ebay that has a lower side vent that should enable connection directly to the existing box. This will enable use of that lower vent preventing drilling another hole in the trailer floor. Battery Box with Side and Top Vent
3) Purchase 2 Duracell GC2 6V batteries from Sams ($93.88).

Always welcome critique and opinions.

[peirek]

pianotuna wrote:
except the wfco will almost never go to bulk.

Agreed

[peirek]

Boon Docker wrote:


WFCO Modes

Float: 13.2
Absorb: 13.6
Bulk: 14.4

I misread the manual. It actually does not state what the Bulk mode is. If it senses less than 13.2v it automatically goes into Bulk mode. I have never seen it actually put out 14.4v. Only 13.6 per the digital meter at the battery.

[pianotuna]

except the wfco will almost never go to bulk.

[Boon_Docker]

peirek wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Does the WFCO ever go above 14.0 volts? 250 watts solar and the existing battery(s) would do a lot better. Maybe even leave the generator at home.

Lifeline (AGM) specs say charge at 14.4 volts. Trojan T-105 (flooded) says 14.8 volts.
Match the voltage to the actual batteries you get for best results.
Either way you probably need to replace the WFCO if using the generator.

The WFCO does not go to 14.4. It has 3 modes:
Absorption mode: 13.6v
Bulk mode: 13.2v
Float mode: If it detects usage jumps to Bulk mode for 4 hours.

Agree with matching batteries to converter. Not terribly interested in installing solar, at least for now. We just don't boon dock enough and normally in pretty shady spots.

WFCO Modes

Float: 13.2
Absorb: 13.6
Bulk: 14.4

[Boon_Docker]

.

[JimBollman]

Interesting thread, I will be doing a similar upgrade to our new to use B.

Does a GC battery allow deeper discharge or do they just have more capacity to start with?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

The plates in AGM golf car batteries are exactly the same thickness as in their group 24, 27, and 31 BCI regular batteries. To upgrade thickness and lifespan the Lifeline battery plates are almost twice as thick as Trojan, Full River, yadda yadda.

No less often than once 2 - 3 weeks the AGM batteries must be fully meaning 100% recharged. Download and read the free Concord Lifeline PDF user guide. Your existing charger is semi effective on batteries that never get unhooked from a power pedestal. BFL13 has a good lead on an inexpensive charger that will work fine with any AGM and it can stand separate from your existing converter. Why disconnect and replace? Clamp on two battery charger clips, plug it in and away you go. At home charge the batteries fully then put the charger away. The existing perverter will work fine as a battery float maintainer. But without assistance it will eventually destroy any AGM battery regardless of make.

[peirek]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

How deep are your pockets?

I would add solar 400 to 600 watts.

If you do move to the "new" location for the battery bank, make sure it can support the weight. I had a support welded under my "second" battery bank and added a layer of 3/4 inch plywood.

Deep pockets not a big issue. As mentioned above, not thinking solar install is the best bet for me.
The new location is adding another battery but your point is very valid! Will need to look at what supports are underneath the area.