Bent frame and suspension issue

[WileyCoyote214]

Long story short...

I have a Cyclone 5w Toy Hauler (1 year old and 11k mileage) that had a tire wear issue. Took it to the local authorized dealer/service shop for alignment who determined the suspension hangers were layed-over in different directions and binding. Also they noted the right frame I-beam was "bent" above both rear axles, in addition to having a cracked weld on the opposite side cross member. In their opinion it was a manufacturer defect and they also would be unable to repair the suspension due to the frame bending (description below). I took it up with Lippert and their reaction was to deny a problem.

After consulting 2 more QUALIFIED shops in the area and hiring a forensic engineering firm (Insurance Company)... the consensus was the same: Manufacturing Defect leading to suspension failure, leading to tire damage. Now Lippert agrees to look at it and they transport the coach to their factory.

HERE IS THE KICKER...

Lippert says the frame has no damage and that the "frame flexing" is "normal". In my case, if one puts a straight edge to the frame I-beam above the tandem rear axles, there is a "wave/bend" in it that measures up to 1/2" from trough to apex.

I have a hard time believing that they manufacture frames that are supposed to bend. In addition I have spoken with 2 authorized dealers, who have over 100 years combined experience in RV sales/service, only to hear that none of them know of any such "flex allowance" in the frame. There is a tolerance for a frame being out of square, however that is not the case with mine.

I have religiously weighed the RV to make sure it's not overloaded and still have the scale receipts. The coach has also not been in any type of collision/road hazard incident, nor has it been turned in excess of 75-80 degrees.

MY QUESTIONS TO YOU ALL:
- Have you heard of such frame damage from NORMAL use?

- Have you heard of an "allowance" for frames to bend/distort due to normal use?

Thank you for your advice and experience in advance!

[I_am_still_wayn]

It sounds like you have enough sound, valid evidence from reliable, qualified sources to send a notice of intent to sue to Lippert. From what you have posted, I bet you would prevail and recover actual and punitive damages. Having said that, you should consider retaining an attorney who handle defective vehicle issues. I bet once Lippert receives that notice of intent, they will cave.

[KMLsquared]

This weekend on the way to lake Shasta, I noticed the trailer hopping from side to side. I pulled over and saw the right side frame bent where the center equalizer mount is welded to the frame. Now I am at the lake welding, cutting and grinding.

[69_Avion]

As stated above, all frames flex. There is a difference between flexing and bending. One is permanent and the other isn't. LOL
How they can stay in business with their reputation is beyond me. I guess that folks don't check out who's frame that the manufacturers are using. With full use of the internet, these folks wouldn't be able to sell a frame.

[JIMNLIN]

Frame flex is normal even for a 20k-30k equipment trailer with a load on it. Whats not normal is when the frame gets permanently bent from normal use or the spring hangers collapse or bend out of shape are the result of bad engineering and design.
The two main frame rails are not structurally strong enough to resist twisting forces from side scrubbing tires as the trailer is pulled around a corner. There also is a lack of enough cross members and out riggers to stiffen the trailers main frame rails. They will bend.

The spring hangers should not lay over or bend out of shape on any trailer.

IMO you are going to have to work with Lippert till something is resolved hopefully in your favor. They will/may fix your problem but admit nothing.

On edit;
we have a toy hauler forum. You might ask the mod to move you over there as some one may have the same unit with the same problem and got a solution to their liking. Jim

[satchelpaigefan]

We had an RV custom made a number of years back. The builder told us back then that most of the manufacturers use cheap stuff from China, and non certified welders.

One of the reasons my husband selected the particular builder (recreation by design) was because of how they built their frame etc.

Reading this thread is scary. Knowing all of this stuff is screaming down the highway next to us does not give me a good feeling!

[gitane59]

WileyCoyote214 wrote:
Long story short...

I have a Cyclone 5w Toy Hauler (1 year old and 11k mileage) that had a tire wear issue. Took it to the local authorized dealer/service shop for alignment who determined the suspension hangers were layed-over in different directions and binding. Also they noted the right frame I-beam was "bent" above both rear axles, in addition to having a cracked weld on the opposite side cross member. In their opinion it was a manufacturer defect and they also would be unable to repair the suspension due to the frame bending (description below). I took it up with Lippert and their reaction was to deny a problem.

After consulting 2 more QUALIFIED shops in the area and hiring a forensic engineering firm (Insurance Company)... the consensus was the same: Manufacturing Defect leading to suspension failure, leading to tire damage. Now Lippert agrees to look at it and they transport the coach to their factory.

HERE IS THE KICKER...

Lippert says the frame has no damage and that the "frame flexing" is "normal". In my case, if one puts a straight edge to the frame I-beam above the tandem rear axles, there is a "wave/bend" in it that measures up to 1/2" from trough to apex.

I have a hard time believing that they manufacture frames that are supposed to bend. In addition I have spoken with 2 authorized dealers, who have over 100 years combined experience in RV sales/service, only to hear that none of them know of any such "flex allowance" in the frame. There is a tolerance for a frame being out of square, however that is not the case with mine.

I have religiously weighed the RV to make sure it's not overloaded and still have the scale receipts. The coach has also not been in any type of collision/road hazard incident, nor has it been turned in excess of 75-80 degrees.

MY QUESTIONS TO YOU ALL:
- Have you heard of such frame damage from NORMAL use?

- Have you heard of an "allowance" for frames to bend/distort due to normal use?

Thank you for your advice and experience in advance!

Welcome to RV.net.:) Sorry you had to search us out because of a serious problem:M
As another poster said "Lippert Strikes again" I;m surprised they did not tell you that the damage was self inflicted as they have with many other unfortunately people.
Go into the fifthwheel forum and search for "Lippert frame bent" and you can read for hours.
In the end you will be forced to find a good trailer welder to straighten and re-inforce the frame and build an X-brace between your frame members and then do the same with your springs hangers.
While you are at it you might as well install heavier axles and get some quality rubber under that trailer.
Good luck trying to get the manufacturer or Lippert to make it right. And no! No noticeable amount of flex is normal.

For your reading displeasure
Boggles my mind that they would even suggest that:R
It also boggles my mind when a manufacturer installs a trim strip at the bottom of a bedroom slideout corner to cover a crack and calls that normal.
This tells me the frame is sagging in relation to the sidewall and stressing the sidewall, trying to pull it apart from the frame.
Build the blankety-blank frames (including the sidewalls) strong enough and weld them well enough that they don't deviate in the first place.
"Soap Box Closed"

[n7bsn]

Lippert strikes again.

A few weeks ago they made a big deal about how one of their divisions "now" uses nothing but certified welders. Which means that before that they were welding frames, without being certified.

[jpares89]

There is a tolerance for normal frame flex. But it's so minimal you would never notice it. Its usually caused by parking on uneven surfaces. Nothing near what your experiencing. And normal YEARS of use and rot will cause flex. Not at 11k miles..

[Thurbersfolks]

Wiley Coyote, I had a 28 Layton and put lots of miles on it including a coast to coast trip one summer three years ago. The frame broke and bent to beyond repair. The insurance co. totaled it out because it was going to be too expensive to fix. The box would have had to be lifted off and a new frame installed. Cheaper to buy a new trailer. So that's what I did. Bought a 30 ft. Forest River Toy Hauler BP. The wheels where under sized and I broke 5 wheels before having to replace the 6 lug 15" to 8 lug sixteen inch wheels on it. No problems since. As a matter of fact, Forest River compensated me for the upgrade. I really feel good about their help with this problem.