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Built-in Onan Generator - inverter compatibility

jcpainter
Explorer
Explorer
As we were ending our "snow birding" stay in Florida this year, we had Camping World install a Cummins Onan Marquis Gold 5500 generator and a 2000 watt Nature Power pure sine wave inverter/charger.

Our request was for a "pure sine wave" system that was safe for all of our sensitive electronics.

After 2 days of installation we were told that "Everything checked out fine, here's the book to read how to use it". This was late on on Good Friday and the service dept was trying to close. We were rushed out the door.

On our way home to TN, we opted to try out our new system by dry camping in a Wal-Mart parking lot.

I won't bore you with the details, but the system did not work fine. We've since taken it to a Camping World in TN. They had it for two days and are now saying that the two devices (that they sold us and installed in our rig) are not compatible. I believe they said that the inverter is a pure (true) sinewave, but the Onan generator is not. Apparently they are having this problem with other such systems that have been sold throughout the US recently and are "working on a solution".

I've been told that Camping World used to sell the Zantrex inverter and that it worked fine with the Onan generator. Going to the Zantrex site I see that they make both pure sine wave and modified sine wave inverters. I see an old youtube video where the true sine wave Xantrex was sold by Camping World.

Does anyone have the Onan generator described above working with a 2000W pure sine wave inverter/charger? If so, what brand inverter?

Any help in "layman's language" would be greatly appreciated.
51 REPLIES 51

docj
Explorer
Explorer
John & Angela wrote:


No this is not true. A properly installed inverter has no problem running microwaves wether it is on a GFI. Circuit or not. Having said that, if your inverter produces a modified sine wave instead of a sine wave there are some devices that may not like it. For example, the microwave in our little C class did not like a modified sine wave. The one in our A class didn't care. We now have only sine wave inverters but the original inverter in the A was a modified sine wave. Served us well for nine years before it smoked. 458 Xantrex.


The Magnum inverter specified by the OP is a pure sine wave unit. This information is irrelevant.
Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/braking system
WiFiRanger Ambassador/RVParkReviews administrator
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

John___Angela
Explorer
Explorer
jcpainter wrote:
Our generator is a Cummins/Onan 5400. The inverter/charger will be the 2000W Magnum MS2012. The rig has two new 6-Volt Trojan batteries, wired in series.

For those of you that actually have a working inverter/charger/generator system . . . . is it true that the neither the microwave nor the circuit with the GFI on it can be operated on the inverter?

When this was installed, the bathroom outlet and half the kitchen outlets were not put on the inverter. The tech said that because they were on a circuit controlled by a GFI, that they could not be put onto the inverter.

Is this true?

Thanks for prompt responses . . . . appointment is early in the A.M.
Jean Painter



No this is not true. A properly installed inverter has no problem running microwaves wether it is on a GFI. Circuit or not. Having said that, if your inverter produces a modified sine wave instead of a sine wave there are some devices that may not like it. For example, the microwave in our little C class did not like a modified sine wave. The one in our A class didn't care. We now have only sine wave inverters but the original inverter in the A was a modified sine wave. Served us well for nine years before it smoked. 458 Xantrex.
2003 Revolution 40C Class A. Electric smart car as a Toad on a smart car trailer
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but rather by the moments that take our breath away.

docj
Explorer
Explorer
jcpainter wrote:
Our generator is a Cummins/Onan 5400. The inverter/charger will be the 2000W Magnum MS2012. The rig has two new 6-Volt Trojan batteries, wired in series.

For those of you that actually have a working inverter/charger/generator system . . . . is it true that the neither the microwave nor the circuit with the GFI on it can be operated on the inverter?

When this was installed, the bathroom outlet and half the kitchen outlets were not put on the inverter. The tech said that because they were on a circuit controlled by a GFI, that they could not be put onto the inverter.

Is this true?



This is yet another example of technicians who don't know what they are talking about. Almost all the outlets in my MH are wired through the inverter and probably 75% of them are GFCI-protected. There is absolutely no relationship between them.

As for the microwave, with a full sine wave inverter you should have no trouble running it; we don't simply because the power draw is very large and it would draw down the batteries rapidly. We turn on the generator when we want to run the microwave.
Sandie & Joel

2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton--425 HP/1550 ft-lbs CAT C-12
2014 Honda CR-V AWD EX-L with ReadyBrute tow bar/braking system
WiFiRanger Ambassador/RVParkReviews administrator
Follow our adventures on Facebook at Weiss Travels

The_Texan
Explorer
Explorer
When you go back to CW, ask to have a tech assigned who has some idea what he is doing. I have a magnum ME2500 and it runs the micro, 2 of the main circuits, which includes the ones with a GFI. It is apparent that they have NO idea what they are doing. Good luck with the new system.

When CW gets through with their install, then take it to a known good RV tech and have it checked for proper installation, as that can be a very dangerous system, if they screw it up.

Bob & Betsy - USN Aviation Ret'd '78 & LEO Ret'd '03 & "Oath Keeper Forever"


2005 HR Endeavor 40PRQ, '11 Silverado LT, Ex Cab 6.2L NHT 4x4, w/2017 Rzr 4-900 riding in 16+' enclosed trailer in back.
Where the wheels are stopped today

2oldman
Explorer II
Explorer II
Too bad you can't do this yourself. From where I'm sitting you're just getting a load of BS.

The kind of piece-meal installation you're describing is a waste.. esp with a big IC like yours. Of course you can run your microwave with it, and you should. But - and this is another problem - only 2 batteries isn't going to cut it. Your IC manual should talk about having a minimum of 4. You've got some serious power there, but you have to feed it.

I'd install it "whole house"..after shore/generator and before the main panel. Then everything runs, and you just leave off the WH and air.
"If I'm wearing long pants, I'm too far north" - 2oldman

jcpainter
Explorer
Explorer
Our generator is a Cummins/Onan 5400. The inverter/charger will be the 2000W Magnum MS2012. The rig has two new 6-Volt Trojan batteries, wired in series.

For those of you that actually have a working inverter/charger/generator system . . . . is it true that the neither the microwave nor the circuit with the GFI on it can be operated on the inverter?

When this was installed, the bathroom outlet and half the kitchen outlets were not put on the inverter. The tech said that because they were on a circuit controlled by a GFI, that they could not be put onto the inverter.

Is this true?

Thanks for prompt responses . . . . appointment is early in the A.M.
Jean Painter

2oldman
Explorer II
Explorer II
jcpainter wrote:
They said that their inverters needed perfect input from the generator in order for them to produce proper Pure Sine Wave output.
Wow...what nonsense.

Never did hear what happens on shore power.
==================
Interesting.

The Home Depot sells this unit for $800. CW shows as an 'Internet special' for $1150, but says it's not available online.

$800 is really cheap (translation: poorly made) for an IC of those specs.
"If I'm wearing long pants, I'm too far north" - 2oldman

jcpainter
Explorer
Explorer
majorsmackdown wrote:


JCPainter... this is the one I have that won't go into charge mode with the onan generator. CW still has it listed...

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/nature-power-sine-wave-inverterchargers-2000-watt-with-55-amp-battery-charger/67197


Oops . . . you are so right. I did a search for "Inverters" on their website and apparently missed the second page of the result set. One of the service guys told us when he called to set up our appointment that they are not selling this anymore. Either he was mistaken or their website hasn't been adjusted to reflect this yet.

This is the exact model they sold us and are replacing tomorrow. Since this is a known problem, see if they will "make it right".

majorsmackdown
Explorer
Explorer
The Texan wrote:
majorsmackdown wrote:
Cheap or weird ? It wasn't cheap, and weird maybe - it's what camping world is selling. I've found in the past that they sell a lot of quality stuff and I assume someone at camping world put the equipment they sell through some sort of quality testing before they expose the public to it...

My point exactly, why would someone ask for specific information or help with specific hardware when there is so much general knowledge out there ? It's because sometimes the specifics aren't the same as the general.

Usually the generators aren't powering the inverters are they ? It's the batteries that power the inverters - and the generator would have to power the battery charger portion and work with the built in transfer switch. Many people on this thread said it should be fine and the installation is the problem - well... I'm here to say that with first hand knowledge of the specific components that a person can expect to have trouble.

Having goofed with it a little bit, I've tried to clarify what the trouble is. I've emailed nature power and will update if I get a reply.
And you have the ....to dress down folks that know more about the operation of an inverter than you just demonstrated. Before telling us we should NOT try and assist the OP. maybe you should learn a little about the operation of 99% of the inverters. It is now apparent from your input that the one CW is selling is some sort of unknown and NOT like the vast majority of the inverters in the RV field.


Do you realize 99% of the inverters out there don't have chargers or built in transfer switches ?

The question and answer that you highlighted was not a question I was asking - but a wake up call - in reference to mena66's comment regarding generators powering inverters. That's a misunderstanding that got started somewhere. In the broadest sense the generator has to power THIS inverter(unit) but not the inverter - and most generators do not need to power most inverters at all - it needs to power the charger, and activate the transfer switch (if so equipped) You have to read the whole conversation and not just jump in where you see fit with more worthless dribble.

This inverter/charger/transfer switch was just simply too complicated for you to wrap your little mind around. I'm sorry to burst your bubble.

What did you just add to the conversation ?

(Nothing !)

And you reinforced my original post - just to bring your post count higher. Nice job.

JCPainter... this is the one I have that won't go into charge mode with the onan generator. CW still has it listed...

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/nature-power-sine-wave-inverterchargers-2000-watt-with-55-amp-battery-charger/67197

Chris_Bryant
Explorer II
Explorer II
jcpainter wrote:
They said that their inverters needed perfect input from the generator in order for them to produce proper Pure Sine Wave output.


They do not know what they are talking about- the unit doesn't take pure sine wave power to produce pure sine wave power- it takes DC power. It uses input power to produce DC. Being a sine wave inverter has zero to do with it.
On the Xantrex- and I am certain the Magnum- you can set parameters for input power- both voltage and frequency. If the input power meets these parameters, it will pass it through while charging the batteries. If the power is bad, it will either not pass any power, or simply provide power from the inverter.

Anyway- glad they took care of it.
-- Chris Bryant

jcpainter
Explorer
Explorer
That's basically what Nature Power said in their email to us. They said that their inverters needed perfect input from the generator in order for them to produce proper Pure Sine Wave output. They added that they didn't feel that the Onans produced high enough quality for them to use.

When Camping World told me that they were going to replace our non-functioning Nature Power with Magnum Energy's MS2012, I did some research and this appears to be well tested quality Pure Sine Wave inverter.

I just went to Camping World's web site and see that they are no longer offering the Nature Power 200W inverter. They are now offering the Magnum replacement. When we ordered ours in February, the Magnum 2000W was not available.

Strangely, they still offer the rest of the Nature Power inverter line. Surely this is a "bean counter" decision. . . and a very, very bad one.

Wayne_Dohnal
Explorer
Explorer
Sounds like the charger is just too aggressive in rejecting imperfect AC input power. I skimmed the website and manual and didn't find this issue addressed. The Outback grid-interactive inverters have the same characteristic. Somewhere in the manuals and/or app notes it says the charger won't work with most small generators, and recommends the Honda eu-series.
2009 Fleetwood Icon 24A
Honda Fit dinghy with US Gear brake system
LinkPro battery monitor - EU2000i generator

The_Texan
Explorer
Explorer
jcpainter wrote:
majorsmackdown wrote:
Cheap or weird ? It wasn't cheap, and weird maybe - it's what camping world is selling. I've found in the past that they sell a lot of quality stuff and I assume someone at camping world put the equipment they sell through some sort of quality testing before they expose the public to it...

My point exactly, why would someone ask for specific information or help with specific hardware when there is so much general knowledge out there ? It's because sometimes the specifics aren't the same as the general.

Usually the generators aren't powering the inverters are they ? It's the batteries that power the inverters - and the generator would have to power the battery charger portion and work with the built in transfer switch. Many people on this thread said it should be fine and the installation is the problem - well... I'm here to say that with first hand knowledge of the specific components that a person can expect to have trouble. I'll admit, I'm new to the forum and didn't dive into the troubleshooting side of things until after I discovered there was a problem. So now I'd look into it - what inverter chargers with true sinewave do work well with the onan generators ?

Having goofed with it a little bit, I've tried to clarify what the trouble is. I've emailed nature power and will update if I get a reply.


I am the OP and I thought I'd give an update. Camping World has concurred that the Nature Power inverters are not compatible with the Onan Generators. Nature Power agrees. I don't understand the "why's" or the "how comes" but they just don't play well together.

We have an appointment Monday morning for Camping World to replace the Nature Power with a Magnum MS 2012 inverter (their recommendation). We were told that Camping World will no longer sell the Nature Power inverters.

I pray this story has a happy ending!
You will be getting the BEST inverter/charger on the market and a very wise move by CW to dump one that won't play with 90% of the generators installed in RVs.

Bob & Betsy - USN Aviation Ret'd '78 & LEO Ret'd '03 & "Oath Keeper Forever"


2005 HR Endeavor 40PRQ, '11 Silverado LT, Ex Cab 6.2L NHT 4x4, w/2017 Rzr 4-900 riding in 16+' enclosed trailer in back.
Where the wheels are stopped today

jcpainter
Explorer
Explorer
majorsmackdown wrote:
Cheap or weird ? It wasn't cheap, and weird maybe - it's what camping world is selling. I've found in the past that they sell a lot of quality stuff and I assume someone at camping world put the equipment they sell through some sort of quality testing before they expose the public to it...

My point exactly, why would someone ask for specific information or help with specific hardware when there is so much general knowledge out there ? It's because sometimes the specifics aren't the same as the general.

Usually the generators aren't powering the inverters are they ? It's the batteries that power the inverters - and the generator would have to power the battery charger portion and work with the built in transfer switch. Many people on this thread said it should be fine and the installation is the problem - well... I'm here to say that with first hand knowledge of the specific components that a person can expect to have trouble. I'll admit, I'm new to the forum and didn't dive into the troubleshooting side of things until after I discovered there was a problem. So now I'd look into it - what inverter chargers with true sinewave do work well with the onan generators ?

Having goofed with it a little bit, I've tried to clarify what the trouble is. I've emailed nature power and will update if I get a reply.


I am the OP and I thought I'd give an update. Camping World has concurred that the Nature Power inverters are not compatible with the Onan Generators. Nature Power agrees. I don't understand the "why's" or the "how comes" but they just don't play well together.

We have an appointment Monday morning for Camping World to replace the Nature Power with a Magnum MS 2012 inverter (their recommendation). We were told that Camping World will no longer sell the Nature Power inverters.

I pray this story has a happy ending!

The_Texan
Explorer
Explorer
majorsmackdown wrote:
Cheap or weird ? It wasn't cheap, and weird maybe - it's what camping world is selling. I've found in the past that they sell a lot of quality stuff and I assume someone at camping world put the equipment they sell through some sort of quality testing before they expose the public to it...

My point exactly, why would someone ask for specific information or help with specific hardware when there is so much general knowledge out there ? It's because sometimes the specifics aren't the same as the general.

Usually the generators aren't powering the inverters are they ? It's the batteries that power the inverters - and the generator would have to power the battery charger portion and work with the built in transfer switch. Many people on this thread said it should be fine and the installation is the problem - well... I'm here to say that with first hand knowledge of the specific components that a person can expect to have trouble.

Having goofed with it a little bit, I've tried to clarify what the trouble is. I've emailed nature power and will update if I get a reply.
And you have the ....to dress down folks that know more about the operation of an inverter than you just demonstrated. Before telling us we should NOT try and assist the OP. maybe you should learn a little about the operation of 99% of the inverters. It is now apparent from your input that the one CW is selling is some sort of unknown and NOT like the vast majority of the inverters in the RV field.

Bob & Betsy - USN Aviation Ret'd '78 & LEO Ret'd '03 & "Oath Keeper Forever"


2005 HR Endeavor 40PRQ, '11 Silverado LT, Ex Cab 6.2L NHT 4x4, w/2017 Rzr 4-900 riding in 16+' enclosed trailer in back.
Where the wheels are stopped today