Coverter/ GFCI problems

[Usnthedog]

Brand new Grand Design Reflection 5er (50A). Just home from the lot. Plugged into my shore power (20A) and tripped the GFCI. Changed cord and different GFCI. Still tripped it. Moved to a non GFCI circuit and ran the Refrig to get ready for a weekend trip. Everything worked. Home from the weekend with no problems and started chasing problem. Checked resistance between ground and hots at the RV and 'open'. Used original set up; 50' 12ga cord, 20a-30a and a 30a to 50a adapter, no load. OK. Plugged into rv and tripped the GFCI. Threw the converter breaker and no trip. Dual fuel refrig ran. On demand water heater so nothing there. Ran 30 minutes or more. Turned on the converter breaker and in less than 3 minutes tripped the GFCI. Sounds like a bad converter. Does anyone have a different idea? I have no information on the converter (don't even kn0w where it is).

Thanks,
Jeff.

[dougrainer]

1. I HAVE had Converter's cause a GFCI trip and replacement was the fix.
2. Someone stated never seen a 30 or 50 amp Shore Cord GFCI. Stay at National/Federal Campgrounds. They have such Plugs. Usually why I get the complaint when a customer comes in and cannot get the CG 50 or 30 to NOT trip the Federal CG GFCI, other than cutting the ground pin OFF. NOT ADVISABLE.
3. GFCI trip is caused by a Load imbalance between the WHITE(neutral) and BLACK (hot).
4. You will NEVER---NEVER get a Converter Manufacturer to admit that their Converter may possibly cause a GFCI fault trip. That is why under warranty, the dealer will replace the Converter and send back to the RV maker for warranty with a detailed explanation of WHY it was replaced. Otherwise the Converter maker will test and deny claim and send back to RV maker with the subsequent charge back to the dealer for the warranty claim. Doug

PS. I have even had the 120 to USB Phone charge plug cause a GFCI trip of the in house GFCI. Rare, but happens

[CA_Traveler]

Was the first try with a non GFCI plug or they never bothered to check? GFCI tripping may also be inconsistent. Have you tried all AC devices?

[Usnthedog]

So the new season is here and the RV went to the shop for a refrig recall. While there I had them check out the ground fault. They said they could not duplicate. I indicated it happened with my 20a to 50a adapter so they tried it and bingo ground fault. So what did they do? Replaced the converter. Why you ask? Can't explain. But it fixed the problem. Still use the original extension cord and the adapter. ??????

[3_tons]

Ha, that just recently happened to me!! I tore the entire electrical system apart at opposite ends trying to hunt down a nagging ground to neutral fault, but try as I might found nothing of any certainty - Drew a schematic and put things back together (5 days from the start…) and suddenly all things work perfectly - go figure !!

At least now I finally have a solid schematic I’d been wishing for 🙂

3 tons

[Usnthedog]

So when I talked to the tech he said he had never received one back with GFI problems that were the fault of the converter. No surprise there. So I pulled the breaker panel. Tugged and moved wires. Sweat a lot. Swore a lot and found nothing so put everything back together and shazaam, no fault. I guess I'll proceed as normal until it raises it's ugly head again.

Jeff

[Usnthedog]

Thanks everyone. I've talked to a tech at progressive dynamics. With his and your thoughts i will attack.

[wa8yxm]

One thing to remember when using a meter to test.. The Meter is DC
The power to the RV is AC.
Continuity can exist at AC when it does not at DC. IN fact there is a component used in RV's that passes AC only.. It is part of the TV-antenna system (There are two of them one in the wall plate one in the antenna) The coax carries both DC and RF (RF is very. or ultra, high frequency AC)

The Converter also contains such devices. BUT.. Should NOT trip a GFCI.

Still. Some do

[3_tons]

Bobbo wrote:

Usnthedog wrote:
Checked continuity between ground and hot on the outside entrance plug.

Continuity between GROUND and HOT would be a dead short circuit and would trip the circuit breaker. What you need to check for is continuity between the NEUTRAL and GROUND. Make this check with the converter/charger breaker turned on since that is when you are seeing the problem. Continuity between NEUTRAL and GROUND would not trip a breaker, but it would trip a GFCI circuit.

Exactly, Agree Completely…

3 tons

[CA_Traveler]

OP You replaced the GFCI but does is it connected to multiple downstream plugs? If it's not standalone then loads on other plugs may contribute to the tripping.

[CA_Traveler]

Not sure what is meant by continuity above - 5ma the tripping point for a GFCI is about 24K ohms. For a ohm meter 20K ohms would trip a GFCI but a continuity checker or ohm meter on a low setting may not detect a fault that would trip a GFCI.

[Bobbo]

Usnthedog wrote:
Checked continuity between ground and hot on the outside entrance plug.

Continuity between GROUND and HOT would be a dead short circuit and would trip the circuit breaker. What you need to check for is continuity between the NEUTRAL and GROUND. Make this check with the converter/charger breaker turned on since that is when you are seeing the problem. Continuity between NEUTRAL and GROUND would not trip a breaker, but it would trip a GFCI circuit.

[CA_Traveler]

A GFCI is a safety device and tripping means there is the potential for dangerous voltage on all grounded RV metal. What is now preventing this is an earlier required safety device namely the ground wire.

We all want to think our RV has a good ground. Maybe it does. But what about the pedestal and everything upstream? And especially the pedestal plug. I've seen many worn or damaged pedestal plugs.

This is one reason why I've posted plugging into a 20A GFCI and checking your RV. It's very rare for a 30A or 50A pedestal plug to have a GFCI to protect for a ground fault.

[ktmrfs]

Before you blame the converter, check what else is on the converter circuit. Is it only the converter? or are some outlets on the same circuit (very common on 30A setups) If there are other items on the same circuit one of them, including an outlet could be the culprit,

[3_tons]

Usnthedog wrote:
wa8yxm and 3 tons. Thanks. Please reread my OP. No hot water heater. (on demand propane only) Only with the converter breaker on doe it trip. Checked continuity between ground and hot on the outside entrance plug. No onboard generator. Refer on caused no problem. Only when the converter breaker is on. And please don't get upset with "please reread the post" it wasn't intended like you thought it was.

Thanks

Jeff

Ok, got it…so assuming no inverter or generator (i.e. no floating ground), unplug shore power and with converter breaker switched to ON, check for unwanted continuity between the neutral and ground bars at the main…There should be no continuity (unless you have a floating ground at a genny or inverter) - neutral and ground bars should NOT have continuity….

3 tons