generator damages AC, other electornics

[Timeking]

I have a Champion dual-fuel 3400 gen. I contacted the manufacturer and asked what happens when/if it runs out of fuel. Answer was that both the gen and everything electronic connected could/would be damaged.

Huh?!?

If this is so, I intend to sell the gen and get something that has 'intelligent' shut-down, i.e., if is is going to run out of fuel or turn off because of low oil, shut down the power BEFORE the motor shuts down.

Duh!!

Is any of this nonsense accurate?

[valhalla360]

ktmrfs wrote:

Timeking wrote:
My suggestion was when low fuel is detected, DISCONNECT THE POWER FEED, and THEN shut the engine down. Two phases.

so the already small fuel tank is now smaller, to solve a non existant problem, reduce run time, cause confusion, extra expense, and frustration from users.

Now a low fuel light would be nice. And it's very easy to implement. Like on my motorcycles (and some cars as well). fuel tank has a thermistor in the fuel tank near the bottom. current source runs constant current through the thermistor, gas keeps the thermistor cool. when fuel level gets low, (below the thermistor) thermistor temp rises as it warms up, signals low fuel light to come on. simple, reliable, and doesn't need any float. very consistent on what level triggers it.

Except the OP was asking about a dual-fuel generator which are typically purchased specifically to run on external propane tanks.

Reality is shutting down by running out of fuel and some sort of sensor that shuts the generator down when fuel gets low effects pretty much the same thing...the generator shuts down with what ever electrical devices still running until power is cut.

If you are manually shutting the generator down (not running out of fuel), it's nice to shut down the major electrical draws but that's a "nice to do". It's not a "your rv electrical system will die" kind of thing.

[3_tons]

jkwilson wrote:
Nothing special about the Champions. Every manufacturer has a similar warning and similar risk of damage.

How exactly would a generator know it was getting ready to run out of fuel until the instant there was no fuel? And how would the generator do a “smart shutdown”? It’s the equipment that needs to be turned off.

The answer is simple: Pay attention to how much fuel you have and shut equipment off to refuel before the tank is empty.

Exactly, it’s SOP - no the sky’s not falling..

3 tons

[ktmrfs]

Timeking wrote:
My suggestion was when low fuel is detected, DISCONNECT THE POWER FEED, and THEN shut the engine down. Two phases.

so the already small fuel tank is now smaller, to solve a non existant problem, reduce run time, cause confusion, extra expense, and frustration from users.

Now a low fuel light would be nice. And it's very easy to implement. Like on my motorcycles (and some cars as well). fuel tank has a thermistor in the fuel tank near the bottom. current source runs constant current through the thermistor, gas keeps the thermistor cool. when fuel level gets low, (below the thermistor) thermistor temp rises as it warms up, signals low fuel light to come on. simple, reliable, and doesn't need any float. very consistent on what level triggers it.

[TurnThePage]

My Champion 3400 has a remote start/stop function. I've been using it for years without harming my RV. I do try to make sure heavy loads are off first. As already mentioned power outages do much the same thing. I've never lost anything that way either. Much ado about nothing in my mind.

[wa8yxm]

jkwilson wrote:


That is not only not simple, it’s not possible without extensive redesign of the equipment being powered by the generator.

How will the fuel level sensor shut down the Generator?
(Logically by killing the ignition by using a switch or relay.

WAIT.> RELAY... Yup relay.

Well either another relay (And make it the pilot) or another set of contacts on the same relay can break the output leads so it shuts off .Exactly as though you pulled the plug.

Not hard at all.

[jkwilson]

Timeking wrote:
My suggestion was when low fuel is detected, DISCONNECT THE POWER FEED, and THEN shut the engine down. Two phases.

Again, you don’t understand how fuel level is detected. Such a device would require shutdown with a significant amount of fuel in the tank and would result in frequent unintentional shutdowns from wind or bumping the generator, and would completely preclude using the generator while in motion.

[Timeking]

My suggestion was when low fuel is detected, DISCONNECT THE POWER FEED, and THEN shut the engine down. Two phases.

[jkwilson]

Timeking wrote:
As regards "Pay attention to how much fuel you have" would require having some way to check fuel level ... there is no fuel gauge on the Champion nor the Honda. There is on the Yamaha. In any case, adding fuel to a running generator is a real good way to fire, explosion, and/or death.

As regards "how would the generator do a “smart shutdown”?" ... It does not seem difficult for any manufacturer to implement a fuel level sensor, and when the sensor detects "Low Fuel" a relay disconnects the power, and then shuts down the generator. !!!!

I can't believe these engineers haven't thought of that, and how that easily accomplished feature would be a sales boon. I think I will write to Champion, Honda, and Yamaha.............

Your understanding of how equipment works is lacking. The very act of the generator shutting down while equipment is powered on is what has the potential for damage. Whether because it runs out of fuel or a sensor tells it it’s about to run out of fuel and it chooses to shut down, the result is the same. A low fuel sensor wouldn’t help in the least. The device needs to be shut down while the generator is running to eliminate a chance for damage. That is not only not simple, it’s not possible without extensive redesign of the equipment being powered by the generator.

[ktmrfs]

when the generator senses an overload, it shuts off the power. Now before it trips the overload output voltage drops considerably, then the overload trips. just like a breaker tripping, and pretty much like what happens when the generator runs out of gas.

I'd say the mfg is just putting in a CYA.

[Grit_dog]

^Save the emails for something else and don’t worry about it. Seriously.

[Timeking]

As regards "Pay attention to how much fuel you have" would require having some way to check fuel level ... there is no fuel gauge on the Champion nor the Honda. There is on the Yamaha. In any case, adding fuel to a running generator is a real good way to fire, explosion, and/or death.

As regards "how would the generator do a “smart shutdown”?" ... It does not seem difficult for any manufacturer to implement a fuel level sensor, and when the sensor detects "Low Fuel" a relay disconnects the power, and then shuts down the generator. !!!!

I can't believe these engineers haven't thought of that, and how that easily accomplished feature would be a sales boon. I think I will write to Champion, Honda, and Yamaha.............

[jjrbus]

jkwilson wrote:
Nothing special about the Champions. Every manufacturer has a similar warning and similar risk of damage.

How exactly would a generator know it was getting ready to run out of fuel until the instant there was no fuel? And how would the generator do a “smart shutdown”? It’s the equipment that needs to be turned off.

The answer is simple: Pay attention to how much fuel you have and shut equipment off to refuel before the tank is empty.

I read an article where they tested the various clones against a Honda. Real testers with equipment, not Joe with a Kill a watt meter. You are correct the clones are poor copies. Lost the bookmark to the testing.

I try to shut my AC off before shutting down generator but run out of gas on occasion. Much less since I added extended run tank. No damage in over 20 years of Honda use. New AC LG 9500 dual inverter has me a bit concerned.

[pianotuna]

I use a remote control for both starting and shutting down my Yamaha generator. The inverter charger does have a time delay on it for starting--but I'm sure on shut down that the wave form gets pretty distorted--even with an inverter generator.

I'd say the changes of damage are NON zero--but I've never heard of anyone having a problem.

I've started the Yamaha at -34 F

[johnhicks]

Don't you use an EMS? If not, you should. It'll protect your electricals.