Got my new (used) batteries!! Now, how do I rejuvenate them?

[Naio]

After a YEAR of Murphy's-law delays (his health, my health, getting stranded on the way there, etc., etc.) I have finally got my hands on 4 Fiamm 132aH, Just like Mr Wizard's.

I figure I should check in with you guys 1st, rather than just stick them on a charger.

They range 12.33-12.68 volts right now, with no load. I think the middle two were 12.49 and 12.66.

The Fiamm spec sheet says they like 14.1-14.4v charging, 13.62 float.

I have a PD9280 and a NOCO gen charger that puts out 10 amps. The PD says it puts out 13.6v, but ISTR there is a trick to get it to do 14.4? The NOCO is uber-smart, when I put a meter on it it seemed to do a slow cycle between 13.6-13.8v. No doubt it does other stuff when I am not looking. I could make it do 20 or 30 amps if I put clamps on the other outputs.

I also have 24v chargers: A just-arrived ebay Meanwell that can do 28v 10 amps, and a couple 5amp-ers.


Should I charge these guys separately because they might respond differently, or connect them in pairs, series or parallel, so I can give them high amps (PD) or high volts (Meanwell)?

Or should I order that adjustable volts and amps ebay power supply and give them fixed amps?

I want to do right by these batteries after going thru so much to get them! And the new van, but that's another day ;).

[Naio]

Lol, what the heck is that pic? Rainbow smiley faces? Easter eggs? I'll take it as something positive :B

[Naio]

Volts going up, amps going down. About 14a 12,73v, I goosed it up to 16a, 13.87v.

Edit: maybe that was 13.73. all thumbs.

Another edit:
It got itself up to 13.9v. I goosed it again to 14.5v and 16a, will see how that sits, see if I can get closer to 14.7 in a few. So suspenseful!

Hmmm.. 5mins later it has gone up to 14.55 so I guess I better leave it.

[Naio]

I am, btw, not too happy with battery A,and B, and wondering if I can do anything else for them.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

[Naio]

Well I haven't done any testing yet, busy, with the 4th, etc. Today I am back to it. Decided to charge battery #4, not charged yet, before anything.

Updates:
All have been sitting for a week or so.
A 12.80
B 12.78
C 13.02
D 12.34

I think battery D could easily take too many amps and smoke my mw, so I am changing based on amps, not volts.

Started it out with initial surge of 29 amps, quickly settled without me adjusting mw to 18 amps. That's at about 13.68v.

I figure I'll let it sit here and check it every few, for an hour in case of unsagging. Unless y'all tell me otherwise.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

This is sort of like strapping various weights to the back of a chicken, then flogging the chicken to see how fast it can run...the slower it runs the heavier the weight. If the chicken topples it's heavy. Runs and minutes of RUN TIME with a NEARLY CONSTANT amp hour draw reveals intelligent usable information. Quantifiable.





Satco S5013 - 100 Watt - A21
12 Volt - Frost - 1,500 Life Hours - 980 Lumens

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/54321/SATCO-S5013.html

[pianotuna]

Hi Landyacht,

Kill-a-Watt works correctly with a pure sine wave inverter.

But even with a MSW the numbers could be used to compare one jar to another. The losses remain the same so they do not invalidate the testing.

[landyacht318]

Do Kill a watts work properly On the output of Inverter?

Even if they do, they will not account for the inverter losses or line losses from ther battery.

Get the battery to 14.7ish, twist pot to hold it at 14.7ish when charging.

Not being familiar with the Megawatt, I can only relate that with my meanwell rsp-500-15. I only have to account for voltage drop difference on my wiring at 40 amps, compared to 0.4 amps. I only bother to turn mine higher loaded or unloaded when i want 40 amps to last for longer while battery is climbing to 14.7v. If time is not an issue and max amps for max duration is not an issue, then if I set my Meanwell unloaded to 14.7, it will get to 14.7v by the time amps taper to the single digits. Somewhat slower to just set it to 14.7v and let it go, compared to setting it to 15.3v to hold 40 amps until battery terminals getto 14.7v( accounting for voltage drop, but no constant pot fiddlement is required.

For the load test, Amp draw at beginning of test, just before ending test, the duration of the test, and voltage readings at those endmarks can reveal enough info for us to make edu mun cated guesses as to the health of each battery you test. The same load and the same duration test will allow
valid comparisons between batteries.

How many KWH or AH actually pass out of the battery can be inferred close enough from the amperage at the beginning of test, and the end of the test, and how long the test was performed, minimizing all variables.

Meaning do not start test, stop test, goto bed for 8 hours and then restart test as that will reveal nothing helpful.

Throw a 4 to 8 am pload on each battery individually for a set period of time, record initial battery voltage unloaded, then loaded, record amperage, then after X amount of time, record amperage flowing record voltage at battery terminals, then remove load, record voltage at 30 seconds, 5 minutes then and hour then 5 hours.

Seek to perform the same test on subsequent batteries keeping all variables as close as possible, and then there IS a basis for comparison, not only from battery to battery, but then again on the same battery if one is going to rechrge it again and load test it again, and compare the voltages/ results to the previous test.

Measure and time the load, return the battery to full charge recording the charging amps and duration and voltage, then load it again.

Do this a few times and it removes nearly ALL the mystery of how a battery stores and releases the energy it has the ability to contain.

Do this a few times and you can look back on this thread in a year and wonder how it was not so obvious to you then.

Ammeter, voltmeter, load and a clock. You have those tools and the sources.

If your battery is not going to accept much more than 25 amps, this tool will record Amp hours and watt hours, upto 64AH with about 90% accuracy.

Sorry no direct link, copy and paste:

https://www.amazon.com/GT-Power-Analyzer-Consumption-Performance/dp/B00C1BZSYO

I feel all ~ 25 amp charging sources should have one.

I modify mine with 8awg and push 40 amps thorough it without concern and it is almost shockingly revealing as to what the battery is accepting/has accepted from the charging source. not 100% accurate by any means but a zillion times better than 'it has held 12.92v for a week now, is it good?'

[pianotuna]

Using an inverter to do the draw down may tend to increase amps as the voltage on the jar drops. The inverter does its level best to keep the voltage up on the output side.

I would put a kill-a-watt meter between the inverter and the load so you can monitor watts, amps, output voltage and total watts used.

[Naio]

>When discharged, the charging amperage the battery accepts, how long t accepts it before voltage rises to 14.7ish

Doesn't this depend on where I set the MW???

It's been taking the battieries an hour or 2 to unsag...I guess. It's hard to stay bec the voltage never stays constant for long, but it get so it changes more slowly. And then it's completely different when I move the clips to another battery

[landyacht318]

Yes just measure the load at the beginning of the test and again near the end of the test( before removing load), and of course how long the load test was performed, voltage before, voltage just before ending test and voltage an hour after ending, and again X amount of time after load was removed. and we can make educated guesses as to how much life/ capacity/ ability these batteries have remaining.

When discharged, the charging amperage the battery accepts, how long t accepts it before voltage rises to 14.7ish, and how long it takes for amperage at 14.7ish volts to taper to 0.66ish amps, will also be revealing.

Much much more revealing than what you have done upto now.

[Naio]

Okie dokie :). I will run tests. Can I just use an inverter and an AC lamp?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Differential comparison is an excellent tool. A standard TWELVE VOLT ONE HUNDRED WATT LIGHT BULB from N.A.P.A. is an excellent 8.5 ampere load. It is threaded just like the old household screw in light bulb but 12-volts.

Buy a ceramic base. Wire it to battery with 14 gauge wire and two alligator clips.

Charge batteries as much as rationally possible

Discharge "bad" battery 4 hours then disconnect

Discharge any other suspected "good" battery"for four hours.

This test is simple yet demanding and exact. The parts are DIRT CHEAP. The actual testing is simple and direct.

Increase time to 8 hours discharge each battery for amplification of end result.

There will be a huge difference in end of test voltage if there is a bad battery.

See what it is... ... ... ... ... 🙂

[landyacht318]

Do you have a way of loading these batteries to see what kind of load they can power and for how long before voltage drops?

Trying to determine battery health/ remaining capacity, by how much a newly acquired used battery accepts at a certain voltage from a certain resting voltage when attained, well there are no trends and no tendencies to compare to.

In my experience a well rested battery behaves differently after a good discharge followed by a prompt and full recharge.

See how the long the battery that got hot, powers a 6.6 amp load before voltage drops to 12.2v.

Can't do 6.6? Guess what, few can. Just see what it can power for how long before voltage drops to XX.XXv, and we can guess as to what degree peukert is reducing battery capacity, if any.

Find and measure a load.

I could go around to gas stations with a full tank and try and determine the exact level at which point the pumps shut themselves off, an dperhaps try to infer the MPGS from gas station to gas station, but why?

Find and measure a load and apply it for an amount of time. 6.6 amps would be ideal load on a 132AH rated battery, and if it powers it for 20 hours before voltage drops to 10.5 v, then pat yourself on the back for a wise purchase. If it hits 10.5v in 6 hours, then shake your fist at the sky and curse the battery gods.

All we really can know at this point, is the battery which got hot, is likely no Steen....king bueno.

But load the SOB.

My screwy 31 got all hot and bothered on the bottom of one cell 2 years ago. Yet it still lives on with a resting voltage that can remain above 12.82 for a week after recharging.

When loaded, it reveals its less than healthy state.

If resting voltage were an indicator of health, well I got a flooded group 31 that can pass with flying colors, until it has to power a load.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"After some twiddling, B is still only taking 1.75a at 14.77v. Is it ok to leave it there for a second 3 hours in hope?"


Yes