Help with identifying delamination / water damage

[NorthernMarshPa]

Thrilled to have found this community! After lurking around here for a while, I finally have a reason to post! My partner and I are hoping to start full time RVing, and are on the hunt for a used RV. We found a 2010 Ford Majestic that we love, but we're worried it might have some water damage. I've attached some photos here. Does anyone have any experience with this? Does this look like a serious problem? Thanks for your help! We are eager to get going but don't want to make a terrible decision...

[Gdetrailer]

IAMICHABOD wrote:
You have been given some pretty good answers and advice so far.The one thing that always seem to come up when talking about a Former Rental is the old wives tale of "drive it like ya stole it" and many other flat out wrong statements and misleading information.

Remember that when you rent a RV you sign a contract that says you are liable for any damages and also a $1000 deposit.

Also they have to be maintained and documented to stay on the road,thus making money.

"Driving like you stole it" is a metaphor for folks rent it, but may not take kid glove care of it.

There are "good" renters, but there are far more "not so good" renters.. It is the "not so good" renters that treat things like garbage.

A former coworker had once got a rental car because his was in the shop for some repairs.. Several of his stories driving that rental car at high speed then slamming the emergency brakes on to get a nice cool side ways spins gave me grey hairs and I wasn't with him when he done it.

There are thousands of things that can be broken or damaged on a motor home that may not ever show up for yrs.

You bring up a valid point, RV rental companies are in to make money.. The only way they can truly make money is to not put any more money into the unit than the bare necessity.

To maximize the return of profits on the cost of keeping that RV "on the road" they are only going to fix the obvious things that need fixed.. Things like, lights, brake pads, tires and oil changes.. They are not going to do a thousand point inspection, or fully rehab the unit. When they have to start to make major and costly parts repairs they are going to dump the unit..

The unit the OP was looking at with 160K miles is most likely over due for front end parts like tie rods and upper and lower ball joints. Very critical parts that "keep you on the road".. Rebuilding that front end properly you are looking at a min of $2K right off the top..

Next stop is brakes, calipers do get stuck and freeze up at 160K miles that is well above normal life of those.. Yet another $1500 if you pay a shop to replace those.. Of coarse it doesn't stop there, good chance the brake hoses are in need of replacing.. Stack another $500 for parts and labor.. Pads and rotors, yeah, bet those are done.. Pony up $150 per rotor, $160 for front and back pads.. We haven't even scratched the surface of possible worn out parts and we are now up to $4,260..

Engine, $5,000-$8,000 for short block plus RR labor..

Transmission, $4,000 rebuild plus RR labor..

Rear end, yeah $2,000 would not be out of line if you had to have a mechanic dive into it..

Then we haven't even addressed all of the delamination in the OPs pictures, it HAS severe water damage in the corners, it HAS severe water damage below the windows, it HAS severe water damage under pretty much every item that goes through the walls to the outside. The rental company obviously didn't do anything like "maintenance" to prevent the water damage.. Things like removing windows and trim and refreshing the caulking periodically was clearly not done by the rental company.. What else did they not attend to??

Speaking of mechanics, ever try to find a mechanic that is willing or able to work on a motor home? They are pretty scarce and the ones that do are up to their armpits in work already.. Very few dealerships are equipped for motor homes and small garages may not have the space to fit a motor home.

While it may be possible to find a "gem" in used rentals the odds are better your going to end up with "cubic Zirconia" (IE "glass") instead of a "diamond".

The fellow attempting to sell the motor home the OP was considering obviously decided that the one they are selling is not what was represented or as good as represented when they bought it.. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling it..

If you like your used rental, that is fine, but the one the OP posted the pictures of is too expensive, too many miles, too much neglect and water damage and we haven't even seen the results of the damage inside.

[valhalla360]

NorthernMarshPanda wrote:
Excellent points about low miles not always being a plus. So much to consider!!

valhalla360 wrote:
call up an independent mobile RV tech and see if they will to an inspection for a couple hundred bucks and walk you thru the issues. Then when you find what you think is a good deal, make an offer contingent upon an independent inspection.

Yes! We were looking into this when we got serious about the majestic. Only got a quote from one company, but check out the prices they quoted us:

rvproseal.com wrote:

- Virtual consultation (images): $199 plus tax.
- Leak detection and water damage inspection: $479 plus tax
- Water damage only inspection: $340 plus tax
- Additional Pre purchase inspection of the following each priced at $240 plus tax: Appliances & Life Safety, Fresh water system, Electrical system

It would be more than $1000 to get everything inspected. It's less to get an actual house inspection! Do you think it's really possible to do one for a couple hundred $?

Gdetrailer wrote:

If you have a vehicle with enough towing capacity you could consider looking at a small travel trailer. A bit less convenient than a motor home but also a much less costly way to start RV'n..

Ah this is a whole other story. We initially planned to tow a small trailer with our 2007 Toyota Highlander (3000 lbs towing capacity), which is in pretty great shape, EXCEPT: the undercarriage is incredibly rusty. Visited a few trailer hitch places and a mechanic, all of them said that there's too much rust for a hitch... Called around to autobody shops and talked about reinforcing the frame... Started to sound complicated, which is when we switched to searching for a motorhome. Now we're back to wondering if we should look into reinforcing the undercarriage or buying a different used vehicle + trailer... We just want to get on the road while there's some summer left, but it's looking more complicated than we ever realized. On top of that, we've been hearing that starlink RV might not be as reliable as we hoped, so I don't know where this dream of living & working on the road is heading.

I would look for an independent guy. The website you listed looks like they are prepared to milk it for all it's worth. I had a mobile guy do some work on a prior rig a few years back. Spent 2 hours and some parts and total cost was around $300. Of course, there might be some translation differences as your signature indicates Ontario...so prices might be different locally.

As far as trailers, an old vehicle that was marginal when new isn't a great option for full timing. At a bare minimum move up to a 1/2 ton pickup or even better a 3/4 ton. They won't cost much different and are easy to drive. The difference is with a truck really well suited to towing, it will be far more comfortable. With a 3/4 ton, you can move up into the 6-8k lb range and get a trailer much better suited to full timing. You can likely get a truck and trailer for the same as the MH you were looking at.

[IAMICHABOD]

You have been given some pretty good answers and advice so far.The one thing that always seem to come up when talking about a Former Rental is the old wives tale of "drive it like ya stole it" and many other flat out wrong statements and misleading information.

Remember that when you rent a RV you sign a contract that says you are liable for any damages and also a $1000 deposit.

Also they have to be maintained and documented to stay on the road,thus making money.

When you get time read thru the Buying A Former Rental thread. This will give you real answers from owners of Former Rentals,there you will find more that 140 members that are happy with their choice.I have yet to see anyone say that they are sorry that they bought one or any that have had a major problem.

I have had my Former Rental for more than 11 years and All of the appliances, refrigerator, stove top, oven, microwave, furnace, water heater, A/C, all have been trouble free and worked without fail. They are all the original ones that came with the RV when new.

All doors, cabinets and drawers are tight and working as they should, the fit and finish is still very good. Even all the tank sensors work! The Onan generator has been trouble free with over 900 hours on it, just routine maintenance and running it monthly under load if has not been used, to make sure that it stays that way.

The Chassis part has only had 2 small problems, one a slight over heating problem that was solved with the installation of a Severe Duty Fan Clutch and the other was a small leak in the transmission tail shaft seal that was replaced at the 100000 mile checkup. Not too bad for a vehicle that is over 16 years old, being put in service as a rental for 5 years in Feb. 2006 and has over 140000 miles on it.

So welcome to the Forum and I hope that your quest for that perfect RV will be fruitful.

[Gdetrailer]

NorthernMarshPanda wrote:

Ah this is a whole other story. We initially planned to tow a small trailer with our 2007 Toyota Highlander (3000 lbs towing capacity), which is in pretty great shape, EXCEPT: the undercarriage is incredibly rusty. Visited a few trailer hitch places and a mechanic, all of them said that there's too much rust for a hitch... Called around to autobody shops and talked about reinforcing the frame... Started to sound complicated, which is when we switched to searching for a motorhome. Now we're back to wondering if we should look into reinforcing the undercarriage or buying a different used vehicle + trailer... We just want to get on the road while there's some summer left, but it's looking more complicated than we ever realized. On top of that, we've been hearing that starlink RV might not be as reliable as we hoped, so I don't know where this dream of living & working on the road is heading.

I see the reasoning..

However, with only 3,000 lbs towing, your current vehicle is not up to the task for towing most hard sided trailers which are going to be heavier than 3,000 lbs empty. You would be looking for extremely small trailers like a "Tear drop" size.

Being your 2007 (a 15 yr old vehicle) is extremely rusty and would require costs in repair and fabrication to make it tow ready I think your better off with finding a newer much more capable vehicle with less limitations and a higher tow rating.

It is very difficult and expensive to fight rust when it starts, I live in the "rust belt" north eastern USA.. Rust knows no sleep.

A newer used tow vehicle plus a small used travel trailer you should be able to get in camping for less than the asking price of that motor home.

Being you are considering "full timing" and working on the road, you might need to stretch your budget a lot.. Full timing and working in a small RV the size of the motor home you posted is going to get cramped and old in a hurry.

As far as Star link, yeah, it isn't available everywhere and may take quite a few more yrs to gain more coverage.. Until then Cell Data is your best hope.

[NorthernMarshPa]

Excellent points about low miles not always being a plus. So much to consider!!

valhalla360 wrote:
call up an independent mobile RV tech and see if they will to an inspection for a couple hundred bucks and walk you thru the issues. Then when you find what you think is a good deal, make an offer contingent upon an independent inspection.

Yes! We were looking into this when we got serious about the majestic. Only got a quote from one company, but check out the prices they quoted us:

rvproseal.com wrote:

- Virtual consultation (images): $199 plus tax.
- Leak detection and water damage inspection: $479 plus tax
- Water damage only inspection: $340 plus tax
- Additional Pre purchase inspection of the following each priced at $240 plus tax: Appliances & Life Safety, Fresh water system, Electrical system

It would be more than $1000 to get everything inspected. It's less to get an actual house inspection! Do you think it's really possible to do one for a couple hundred $?

Gdetrailer wrote:

If you have a vehicle with enough towing capacity you could consider looking at a small travel trailer. A bit less convenient than a motor home but also a much less costly way to start RV'n..

Ah this is a whole other story. We initially planned to tow a small trailer with our 2007 Toyota Highlander (3000 lbs towing capacity), which is in pretty great shape, EXCEPT: the undercarriage is incredibly rusty. Visited a few trailer hitch places and a mechanic, all of them said that there's too much rust for a hitch... Called around to autobody shops and talked about reinforcing the frame... Started to sound complicated, which is when we switched to searching for a motorhome. Now we're back to wondering if we should look into reinforcing the undercarriage or buying a different used vehicle + trailer... We just want to get on the road while there's some summer left, but it's looking more complicated than we ever realized. On top of that, we've been hearing that starlink RV might not be as reliable as we hoped, so I don't know where this dream of living & working on the road is heading.

[Gdetrailer]

Motor homes are an expensive proposition to start RVing in. They cost more to build than trailers and the used prices reflect that higher initial cost in the used market.

Higher prices doesn't mean motor homes are better built or better quality, just means the cost of platform or frame of the camper portion which is a heavy duty truck or van frame makes the entire rig much more expensive.

Trailers on the other hand can be had for lower cost due to the fact the frame under the trailer costs very little to make.

Motor homes do offer some conveniences like when you stop, you don't have to get out of a vehicle to get into the camper and the camper portion is precooled or preheated when you arrive at your destination.

Motor home do have some downsides, unless you tow a small car behind you, you have to break camp every time you want to get groceries or sight see, leveling can be a chore unless you find one that has built in leveling jacks.

If you have a vehicle with enough towing capacity you could consider looking at a small travel trailer. A bit less convenient than a motor home but also a much less costly way to start RV'n..

The size of Motor home you was looking at, even a slide in camper (AKA Truck Camper or TC) might work for you. Used trucks and TCs should get you in a price and mileage range that might make more sense.

Otherwise, yes, 1980s-1990s motor homes might get you in the price range. Personal motor homes unlike rentals typically will be very low mileage and old ones often are much less expensive.

The downside however, the sitting around may also be a problem with hoses, belts rotting out, pitted and severely rusted out brake rotors and rusted stuck brake calipers, rotted fuel and brake lines and corroded wiring connections.. Along with typical camper water intrusion issues which were not fixed.

[valhalla360]

Not to be contrary (well maybe a little)...

160k miles on a 12yr old vehicle would be preferable to say 20-30k miles.
- 160k miles means it's being used regularly and as things break and wear out, they tend to get repaired.
- 20-30k miles means it's likely sitting in a field somewhere for months at a time with rubber parts rotting out, seals drying out, fuel gumming up, etc... Lots of bad things about leaving a vehicle sit for long periods. Expect repairs if you pull it out after sitting for months. This can also apply to appliances (air/con, fridge, furnace, etc...) to varying degrees.

Currently using the 2008 F250 to haul from Michigan to Montana before heading to Alaska in the spring. Just crossed 230k miles after buying at 170k 3yrs back. Did tires, belts and brakes...all regular maintenance stuff...no other major repairs.

If you are looking at small Class C units, you might swing by the shop rather than calling. Even if you tell them the model and size, I'm betting a lot of shops think it's much bigger and they may not have a bay suitable for a 35-40ft MH. What you have is essentially a van (van chassis really) and most shops have no issue working on a van.

Yes, the equivalent repair on a truck will cost more than a sub-compact. That happens new or used.

On additional thought: Since you are new to RVs and you had to ask if this was a good deal...call up an independent mobile RV tech and see if they will to an inspection for a couple hundred bucks and walk you thru the issues. Then when you find what you think is a good deal, make an offer contingent upon an independent inspection. It's not a guarantee they will catch everything but they can screen out a lot of issues having seen many of them. They can also give you an idea of if an issue is repairable and what the cost will be. Make sure to plug it into power and operate every system as part of the inspection.

[NorthernMarshPa]

Gdetrailer - thanks for giving me some more context here! I've only just started learning the complications of owning a large truck as opposed to a small vehicle. Finding someone that could even do the basic safety inspection here took 10x as much calling around and cost more than double what it costs for a regular automobile. We definitely aren't buying this one, but I don't think we're going to find anything in our price range with low mileage. Seems the majority of our options at the moment are RV's from the 80s...

[pianotuna]

37k is a ridiculously high price. SCRAM and SCAM

It is on the small side for full timing.

[Gdetrailer]

dougrainer wrote:
He is asking C37,000 which is about $29000 US. 160,000 miles, NOT kilometers. This is truly a pig in a poke. The fact that he wants $500 NONREFUNDABLE PAYPAL within 24 hours of sale would mean he does not want a independent chassis and RV inspection? This RV is truly a BAD buy. Doug

160K miles?

Yeah, your most likely looking at a complete front end rebuild right off the bat (tie rods inside and outside both sides, upper and lower ball joints both sides), all bushings and shocks front and back and that is just to get it into a somewhat safe driveable condition.. If you had to pay for that out of your pocket your looking at easily $1,000 in parts and another $1,000 in labor and haven't even touched the wheel bearings, brakes, rotors nor things like alternator, belt, A/C compressor, power steering and on and on..

I have put considerable amounts of miles on vehicles many times over once I get them up to 140K miles it really does start "nickle and diming" you to death.. The problem however once you get past small automobiles and cross into large truck and vans the costs are not nickles and dimes, it is hundreds of Dollars at a clip for parts..

A a brake rotor for a small car may cost $50 or less, but for a 1 ton or 1 1/2 ton truck or van you now have entered $150 and up..

The highest mileage modern vehicle I have owned I sold when it had 240K miles on it, the front end was rebuilt, rebushed twice and new shocks twice by the time I sold it. Engine and transmission ran fine when sold but replacing worn out body parts become a huge cost in trying to keep it on the road.

That is why a high mileage rental is a very poor choice to try to save money.. The money you may have saved, will wind up costing many times more in replacing the worn out parts..

The rental company sold it off because it most likely became to costly to keep repairing vs buying a new unit.

It is cute looking, but not cute enough for the price and mileage.

[NorthernMarshPa]

dougrainer & Gdetrailer - you both make great points, thank you! Especially appreciate the point that people people renting RVs don't necessarily know how to operate an RV (compared to people renting cars who generally know how to operate a car already). Hadn't considered that.

dougrainer, impressed with your Google skills! I had no idea what you were talking about with the PayPal deposit, so did my own search. I see the seller also has it listed on eBay where he's asking for a deposit. That would have given me pause as well. However, I found it via Kijiji (like Craigslist), where there was no mention of a deposit. The seller was super cooperative, let us see it twice, test drive it, and have a basic safety inspection done. He would certainly consent to a more thorough inspection if we asked. I genuinely believe that the seller only learned about the delamination at the same time as us, so it's a sad story for everyone involved. Regardless, you're right that it's not a good purchase, at least not for us.

This is a wonderfully helpful community - thanks everyone for being so generous with your time & knowledge!

[valhalla360]

shum02 wrote:

NorthernMarshPanda wrote:


PS: Also figured out that this must have been an old Cruise Canada vehicle, based on the footprint left from the old decals. No idea if that's good or bad, but interesting to know!

Just another reason to leave it be.

Assuming everything else looked good, being a former rental unit wouldn't concern me.

Honestly some of the cheap bling they add to private sale units...probably more of a concern.

[dougrainer]

He is asking C37,000 which is about $29000 US. 160,000 miles, NOT kilometers. This is truly a pig in a poke. The fact that he wants $500 NONREFUNDABLE PAYPAL within 24 hours of sale would mean he does not want a independent chassis and RV inspection? This RV is truly a BAD buy. Doug

[dougrainer]

It is never a good idea to buy a commercial rented RV Trailer or Motorhome. Especially if you do not have the skills to do your own repairs. It will have 10 times the use of a normal private owned RV. Also, a LOT of RV renters have never rented an RV before so, they will inadvertantly cause damage on various systems. You don't state price but regular NON rental models like yours(year and brand) are selling between 22k and 30k. Comparing Car rentals with RV rentals is truly apples and oranges. EVERBODY that rents a Car, knows how to drive and use most of the basic systems. So breaking things is very rare. AS I explained above RV rentals, very few really know how to use them correctly. So, they get abused a lot more. Your pics of the motorhome show a Motorhome that has been rode hard. The seller is probably firm because like you he thought he got a good deal and wants out of it without losing money, which he will do, unless he finds a sucker to buy for his price. Is there a reason you do NOT want to list his asking price? What is the Mileage? Doug