Honda eu2000i 12v outlet for fan?

[HBtexas]

Hey folks,
I have built a enclosure for my Honda gen sets.

has anyone used the Honda eu2000i 12v outlet for fan?
I had a power wart supplying power to my 2 pc fans 200cfm each .
But after looking at the amp output on my power wart (12v dc power)
I decided to make a cable that fit the Honda 12v socket and us it .
Seems to work fine bat have read somewhere that 12v is a nasty source.
My fans are 12v and only draw 3 amps for the pair .
The 12v 8amp outlet one honda says for battery charging use only ..
We all know they not much good for that . As a reg battery charger is way better.
Any input ? Just dont want to ruin the fans with a nasty power source.

[road-runner]

I can't find anything in the eu2000i manual that says to not use the DC and AC outputs at the same time. Could somebody point me to it?

(Interesting situation with the Yamahas. The EF2400is manual says don't use the AC and DC outputs at the same time, it will damage the generator, while the manuals for the EF1000is, EF2800is, and EF3000iseb all say it's ok. Wonder what's behind that? The charging circuits are all the same.)

[horton333]

road-runner wrote:
So you're saying the DC will flow backwards through the diodes. If I don't understand how this can happen I have no business trying to explain anything.

For completeness there were more mistakes, and assumptions that are not valid for this generator anyway, than just those 3 in that post......but enough is said.

[HBtexas]

I got a auto cooling fan today at the parts house., It moves considerably Less air than the 2 little pc fans I had installed, But could not find suitable pc fan replacements that moved as much air as the old ones I had.. Sooo. Im leaning tward an ac house fan..

[road-runner]

happycamper002 wrote:

road-runner wrote:
This explanation is not correct. The DC output is driven from its own winding on the eu2000i's stator and has no electrical interaction with the windings that drive the 120 volt inverter.

Not withstanding the readings you have from the scope... the above statement is tough to make.
Certainly (as shown in the Honda schematic) the DC output is derived from a separate sub-winding.
Being separate that they are doesn't mean that one winding has no influence over the other.

I said "electrical interaction", not "influence". The statement is easy to make because it's true.

Overload on either 12VDC or 120VAC will set off an alarm.

Have you actually seen this with the DC output or are you guessing?

The DC output is meant to be higher by design to push electrons to the discharged battery.
Running at par or lower voltage will cause the charger winding to act like a load thereby making the battery condition worse.

So you're saying the DC will flow backwards through the diodes. If I don't understand how this can happen I have no business trying to explain anything.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

I use both voltages in enclosed boxes for ventilation. The BORG is one example. Through trial-and-error I have found that a fan placed high on the box exhausting outward seems to keep interior components the coolest. And it doesn't take an enormous amount of CFM's to do a good job.

A single 24 volt 60-70 CFM fan can exchange a lot of air. With high ripple I use an axial diode rated 10x fan load, then couple a 47uf 100 volt electrolytic capacitor between the diode and the fan.

A 24-volt fan running at 18-volts runs slower of course but not that much slower. Simply choose a higher CFM to compensate.

There are fan filters that can be used to mitigate entry of foreign material like dirt.

And on eBay a simple adjustable shutoff delay circuit can be custom tailored to delay shutoff time. Check operating voltage recommendations.

Pianotuna graciously shipped a large NEMA 4 plastic box to me. inside goes a

1500 Watt. RSP-15 Meanwell power supply. 100 amperes at 12 volts.
The Gigawatt 56 amp power supply

A 1000 ampere dual schottky rectifier on a heat sink.

And a bevy of panel meters and switches. Voltage adjustment click click and power potentiometers. Amp hour meter. AC monitoring panel meters.

Pushbutton delay timer and windup delay timers.

200 ampere rated connectors.

Umbilical sockets for detachable control cords. A dual contact 200 amp rated socket, and plug for one gauge silicone paired jumper cables.

And an EBM Pabst dual ball bearing brushless 180 CFM exhaust fan with filters. This monster is going to develop a lot of heat when it's angry.

No this thing is not essential in my life. Yes, I need a project and this is one.

[happycamper002]

road-runner wrote:
This explanation is not correct. The DC output is driven from its own winding on the eu2000i's stator and has no electrical interaction with the windings that drive the 120 volt inverter.

Not withstanding the readings you have from the scope... the above statement is tough to make.

Certainly (as shown in the Honda schematic) the DC output is derived from a separate sub-winding.
Being separate that they are doesn't mean that one winding has no influence over the other. Actually there are four windings. . . counting the WYE connected setup for the 120 VAC as one winding.

Overload on either 12VDC or 120VAC will set off an alarm.

Warning light (red) will come on and about 4 sec the green warning light will go off but engine will keep running.
This interaction is not shown in details for end user to analyze the dynamics involved and the parameters associated how these two interact. It's all in the spark electronic module.
Unless a person has the training/skill in tracing how the various electronic components function in relation to each other.

Also, the excitation winding and other windings are in the same ferro-resonant core where the output before the bridge rectifier is connected. Nuances in the magnetic flux in the core (caused by overload) is sensed in the exciter winding and is then reflected in the DC winding.

I agree that the DC is unregulated and its output is much higher not beneficial to the fan. It will run the fan OK but in a short life span. Filtering an already high voltage will not help a bit--in fact with the wrong capacitance will even increase the output.

The DC output is meant to be higher by design to push electrons to the discharged battery.
Running at par or lower voltage will cause the charger winding to act like a load thereby making the battery condition worse.

[HBtexas]

SoundGuy wrote:
To the OP ...

There's no need to go through all this when you can use a 120 vac fan and plug it into one of the gensets receptacles, just as I did.



Since the EU2000i's output has a floating neutral I used that same plug to G-N bond the genset's output so my Progressive EMS wouldn't interpret the signal as an open ground and not pass power on to the trailer. 2 birds with 1 stone. 😉

True,, however , Reason I am is I have a 12v power in the bed of my truck that will switch over and run the fans when gen has turned off and allow them to cool for 20 mins before it shuts off. keeping the box and gens cool.

[SoundGuy]

To the OP ...

There's no need to go through all this when you can use a 120 vac fan and plug it into one of the gensets receptacles, just as I did.



Since the EU2000i's output has a floating neutral I used that same plug to G-N bond the genset's output so my Progressive EMS wouldn't interpret the signal as an open ground and not pass power on to the trailer. 2 birds with 1 stone. 😉

[SCVJeff]

HBtexas wrote:
Hmm you think bleeding 2 little PC fans at 1.50 amps each would effect it ?

it may... if his two fans are 1.5A ea., 1.5x2=3A, and is almost 50% of the available current.

OP- Care to post pix of your gen box? Is it sound or just a theft box?

[landyacht318]

Perhaps a powerful 24v fan will work well:

http://www.delta-fan.com/

They have some which are 252CFM at 24 volts, but likely louder than the Honda at 24v, but not at 17 volts.

Delta fans seem to have pretty robust electronics.

This is the 252cfm 120mm 12 volt version's internals:

[wnjj]

.

[road-runner]

The generator produces unregulated AC which is rectified to DC, this circuit supplies the 12V outlet. It is then inverted to 120 VAC 60Hz. If power is bled off the DC circuit a low voltage signal will go to the inverter producing the wrong output.

This explanation is not correct. The DC output is driven from its own winding on the eu2000i's stator and has no electrical interaction with the windings that drive the 120 volt inverter. The DC output is not only unregulated, it is unfiltered. Here are some DC output measurements from my eu2000i:

With no load, output peaks are 20 volts at low idle (eco on), and 30 volts at high idle (eco off). At low idle both filaments of an 1157 bulb results in an RMS voltage of 9.2, peak voltage of 17, and a load of 1.9 amps. At high idle (recommended for charging) with the same load the RMS voltage is 14.2, peak voltage 27, and the load is 2.45 amps. On a scope, the waveform looks like ~50% duty cycle pulsating DC.

What does this have to do with a fan? I'd guess that a straight DC fan has a chance of doing ok. Most fans used in electronic devices use brushless motors and have internal electronics to create a rotating magnetic field in the stator. I don't have a clue how they'd react to the DC charging output. You could always add your own filter circuit to eliminate any potential problems.

[HBtexas]

Well, poo,
Checked the voltage with eco off, spiked to 19.5v . Yep cooked my little pc fan , hahahha
So to the parts store to get a 12dc elect fan tomorrow, It should handle that spike way better.

[HBtexas]

I also found this post on the forum , Guy used his 12v for fan looks like.

If had had initially known I would use th e12v outlet , I would have got a bigger fan ,
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/28956619/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1

I will try and get pics of my project , to get some input from you all.