Hondo 2000 vs Yamaha 2000

[monkey44]

For same price - Yamaha 2000 is one inch shorter, two pounds lighter, and .8 DB quieter. Honda at 98cc, Yamaha at 79cc.

So, why does everyone seem inclined to buy the Honda, way more comments and campers talk about Honda than a Yamaha.

I'm betting the quality is probably pretty equal - so, can anyone say why it seems more RV'ers buy the Honda.

Just curious about reasons one over the other -- don't particularly want to get into a big extended brand war, but my curiosity is sticking itself out there again.

Is availability a likely issue? Or ease of finding Honda dealer for service and repair and warranty?

[sc3283]

Hondas here due to availability in my area

[robert3]

Chinolbz wrote:
Question? Can't you make your own parallel cables with standard male cord end plugs? Yes the one end would be hot if you were not careful. But it would work, yes? Chino

In theory, sure, but incredibly unsafe. The good news is you can make your own cables with off the shelf parts...the connectors used are not special and readily available from a number of suppliers.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

[Chinolbz]

Question? Can't you make your own parallel cables with standard male cord end plugs? Yes the one end would be hot if you were not careful. But it would work, yes? Chino

[robert3]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:
I think the big mystery is why Honda Canada sells parallel capability for the eu1000, but not the eu2000.

I recall discussing this a long time ago, and if memory serves, a parallel-style EU1000i is okay in Canada due to its power size. A pair of units is only 2k, and is not effected by CSA rules that otherwise prohibit larger EU2000i units with parallel connections being sold in Canada.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

[full_mosey]

The instruction manual for my Yammi 2000 said to pull the handle to feel the bump and then recoil the handle. I never felt the bump, let the rope back in to test again and it started!

I always wondered if it would have started on the first pull if I had been more aggressive instead of feeling for the first bump.

HTH;
John

[renoman69]

Here is a picture of the Canadian model. To the right above the receptacle it says "neutral floating".

[Wayne_Dohnal]

"WARNING: Generators sold in Canada with CSA certification have the neutral bonded to the frame in compliance with CSA standards. Disconnecting the neutral bond will void the CSA certification of the generator."

There are at least 2 ways to interpret this statement:

1) CSA requires the neutral to be bonded on all generators, or 2) CSA requires the neutral to be bonded on THIS generator. #1 is the obvious interpretation that IMO most people would choose. Since the generator is labeled as having a bonded neutral, disconnecting the bond is "illegal" unless the labeling is also changed, which I believe is the correct interpretation. The Internet is full of documents, many from Canadian governmental agencies, that clearly state the neutral can be bonded or not bonded, and the generator must be labeled as such. Here's one example from Schnieder Electric with references to the CSA chapters: Schneider Application Note .

I found a picture of the eu2000kc2 panel. Above the AC outlet it's labeled "Neutral Floating" and "Neutre Flottant".

As far a paralleling 2 generators with a bonded neutral goes, I believe it would be OK safety-wise if the connection cable was polarized, which the Honda cable isn't. I think the big mystery is why Honda Canada sells parallel capability for the eu1000, but not the eu2000.

[SaltiDawg]

robert@honda wrote:

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

Not an RVer, but do not the Canadians require that the neutral be bonded? If so, one would not want the possibility of two different grounds to exist simultaneously.

Just thinking out loud.

It would be interesting if somebody with an eu2000kc2 (Canadian eu2000i) could look in the Owner's Manual to see if the statement about outlet testers showing an open ground is there, or better yet, report what an outlet tester plugged into the eu2000kc2 reports. I can't find the eu2000kc2 Owner's Manual online anywhere to look at it myself.

I was able to connect with an engineer at Honda Canada. He tells me the Canadian version of the EU2000i is not, and has never been, neutral bonded. So, if tested with a typical household outlet testing device, it would correctly indicate an open ground, just like all USA model Honda generators, with the exception of EB-series models, which are neutral bonded to pass OSHA jobsite regulations.

-Robert@Honda

Thanks, Robert. I found the following quote at Champion's www site.

"WARNING: Generators sold in Canada with CSA certification have the neutral bonded to the frame in compliance with CSA standards. Disconnecting the neutral bond will void the CSA certification of the generator."

I also found 10 year old Canadian references which at that time specified that generators must have a decal indicating whether or not the neutral was bonded to the frame/chassis.

I likely am simply confused, but if one tried to parallel two generators each with their respective neutrals bonded to their respective chassis would that create the possibility of two different grounds and thus a real electrical hazard?

Again, I am not coming from an RV background. Just trying to learn more.

[robert3]

Wayne Dohnal wrote:

Not an RVer, but do not the Canadians require that the neutral be bonded? If so, one would not want the possibility of two different grounds to exist simultaneously.

Just thinking out loud.

It would be interesting if somebody with an eu2000kc2 (Canadian eu2000i) could look in the Owner's Manual to see if the statement about outlet testers showing an open ground is there, or better yet, report what an outlet tester plugged into the eu2000kc2 reports. I can't find the eu2000kc2 Owner's Manual online anywhere to look at it myself.

I was able to connect with an engineer at Honda Canada. He tells me the Canadian version of the EU2000i is not, and has never been, neutral bonded. So, if tested with a typical household outlet testing device, it would correctly indicate an open ground, just like all USA model Honda generators, with the exception of EB-series models, which are neutral bonded to pass OSHA jobsite regulations.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

[gdreese]

Honda is more popular because it is red, like a sports car, everybody wants a red one.

[robert3]

renoman69 wrote:
Thanks for explaining this Robert but you didn't answer why the Hondas are so hard to start when they are cold. Mine is a bear too when it is cold.

As you probably know, carburetor engines are very picky about air/fuel ratios and ambient temperatures. When the engine is cold, the engine requires much more fuel than air, thus a choke is necessary to create the proper ratio. Due to emissions rules, the engine is already very lean, so is can be a challenge under such conditions, and the fuel system on the EU2000i must be able to function flawlessly. Any obstruction or restriction can reduce the fuel flow and make a cold engine difficult to start.

Once started, however, a warm engine can operate with a reduced air/fuel ratio, and a tiny obstruction has less effect on starting.

Unless there is a mechanical issue with the choke plate not fully closing, difficulty in starting a cold EU2000i is likely due to a fuel delivery issue, likely caused by some tiny obstruction in the carburetor. This can be avoided by NOT storing fuel in the generator for more than 30 days; always drain fuel from the generator if will not be run in 30 days or more. Never use fuel in the generator if the fuel is older than 30 days old. Never use fuel with more than 10% ethanol. 86 octane fuel is all that is necessary.

Stale or decayed fuel it the absolute #1 problem / issue with poor running / starting / performance in small gas engines.

Finally, most generators use a gravity type system that lets fuel drain from a fuel tank to the carburetor. On the Honda EU2000i, the carburetor sits a bit higher than the bottom of the fuel tank. So, the EU2000i has a small vacuum-driven fuel pump that drives fuel from the bottom of the tank to the carburetor. Allow to sit for a while, the fuel system can lose its prime, and it may take a few pulls to pressurize the lines and get fuel flowing again. This is why it takes 5-10 pulls to start a new EU2000i or one that has been sitting a while.

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

[renoman69]

Thanks for explaining this Robert but you didn't answer why the Hondas are so hard to start when they are cold. Mine is a bear too when it is cold.

[robert3]

Here are the facts:

All USA spec Honda EU2000i models have always had parallel receptacles. The very first model was the only model, and when you connected them together, you could only get a tiny bit more power due to the size of the breaker. At the same time, Honda offered the EU1000i and the EU3000is.

In Canada, similar models were introduced. The EU1000i was launched first, and it had parallel outlets, but when the EU2000i was going to be introduced, CSA regulations would not permit it, so the parallel option was removed from the planned specifications. All Canada-market EU2000i do NOT have parallel connection. All Canada-market EU1000i continue DO offer parallel connection.

Next, back in the USA, Honda created an external parallel kit with a 30A breaker and 30A receptacle. This allowed a parallel connection between two EU2000i units with a full 30A of power. These external parallel connection boxes were made by Gen-Tran and Relliance companies, and have been discontinued, but still offered online and allow any two standard EU2000i to be connected together.

A few years later, Honda introduced the EU2000i Companion. This model featured an built-in 30A receptacle, and eliminated the need for an external parallel box. You could now just connect the parallel cables between two EU2000i units (base model and Companion) and get the full 30A power out of the Companion's 30A receptacle. The Companion eliminated one of the two 15A receptacles and the DC charging receptacle. The Companion has a list price about $130+ than the standard EU2000i.

Next, there is the Camo EU2000i. This is exactly the same as the standard EU2000i, but the outer covers are trimmed in a camouflage scheme.

You may use parallel cables between *any* two models of EU2000i. For best results, at least one should be a Companion, as to take advantage of its 30A receptacle. Otherwise, you'd be limited by the smaller breaker and receptacles on the other EU2000i models.

All Honda EU2000i models have cast-iron cylinder sleeves and a 3-year warranty. They are manufactured in Japan.

Full details here: Honda Generators

-Robert@Honda
Caveat: I work for Honda, but the preceding is my opinion alone.

[Wayne_Dohnal]

Not an RVer, but do not the Canadians require that the neutral be bonded? If so, one would not want the possibility of two different grounds to exist simultaneously.

Just thinking out loud.

It would be interesting if somebody with an eu2000kc2 (Canadian eu2000i) could look in the Owner's Manual to see if the statement about outlet testers showing an open ground is there, or better yet, report what an outlet tester plugged into the eu2000kc2 reports. I can't find the eu2000kc2 Owner's Manual online anywhere to look at it myself.