Leaking Lippert Axle Seals

[otrfun]

I seem to remember reading a post or two about the seals on some Lippert axles being problematic. Searched but couldn't find anything.

FWIW, the brakes on our 5th wheel toy hauler (with 7k Lippert axles and 12x2 Axletek brakes) have been less than stellar since we took delivery. Took our TH to the dealer a few months ago and they said the brakes were functioning properly. With our warranty ending in a few months figured I'd pull the drums just to play it safe. Glad I did. All four axle seals had varying amounts of grease leaking around them. One was leaking particularly bad with a thick layer of grease all over the brake shoes.

Seems strange that all four were leaking. Did Lippert have a large batch of bad seals? Or, did Lippert use the EZ/Super lube zerk fittings during assembly and force-in too much grease. I never grease these zerk fittings just because of the risk of blowing grease past the seals. IMO, annual repacks should be sufficient.

Fortunately, our dealer was willing to submit a warranty request to Lippert based on pictures I took of the brakes, seals, and drums.

Still thinking seriously about doing a disc brake conversion. At least with disc brakes the axle seal is clearly visible so any leaks can be caught early 🙂

[dougrainer]

otrfun wrote:
OP UPDATE:

Dealer replaced all four backing plate braking assemblies and brake drums under warranty yesterday. When the dealer notified Lippert how badly the drums were scored, they immediately ok'd replacement of the drums. Glad it was under warranty. This dealer's labor rates are $140 an hour. Add in retail pricing on all these parts, this job could have easily cost $1500. Could have done it DIY using $600 in parts from etrailer.

Anyhow, after I left the dealer, braking was still mediocre. It took about 10-15 miles of intermittent braking on some back roads to seat-in the new brake shoes. It wasn't long before the braking dramatically improved.

Our 5th wheel weighs 11k empty (CAT scaled). Before this repair, we always had the P3 set for maximum braking (12 volts) just to get minimal braking. Now we can lock up the wheels on dirt with only 4.5 volts. Also discovered by accident it will start locking up one or two wheels, on pavement, with only 7.5 volts.

Since we're now getting good braking performance with only 5-6 volts, we might be able to go back to using our OEM Ram integrated brake controller again. It's capable of producing 8 volts.

Still keeping our options open to replace these drum brakes with disc brakes. As long as these new drum brakes continue to perform like this, we'll stick with them. However, not holding my breath. If braking starts to degrade for any reason, we won't attempt any further repairs---just replace 'em with disc brakes DIY.

NEW Trailer Drum assbly's come with a protective coating on the shoes. LCI and Dexter state to operate the brakes with the brake controller intermittently for the first 30 miles or so , to burn off that coating. Not a problem on brand new trailers because that coating gets burned off by the delivery driver. Doug

[otrfun]

OP UPDATE:

Dealer replaced all four backing plate braking assemblies and brake drums under warranty yesterday. When the dealer notified Lippert how badly the drums were scored, they immediately ok'd replacement of the drums. Glad it was under warranty. This dealer's labor rates are $140 an hour. Add in retail pricing on all these parts, this job could have easily cost $1500. Could have done it DIY using $600 in parts from etrailer.

Anyhow, after I left the dealer, braking was still mediocre. It took about 10-15 miles of intermittent braking on some back roads to seat-in the new brake shoes. It wasn't long before the braking dramatically improved.

Our 5th wheel weighs 11k empty (CAT scaled). Before this repair, we always had the P3 set for maximum braking (12 volts) just to get minimal braking. Now we can lock up the wheels on dirt with only 4.5 volts. Also discovered by accident it will start locking up one or two wheels, on pavement, with only 7.5 volts.

Since we're now getting good braking performance with only 5-6 volts, we might be able to go back to using our OEM Ram integrated brake controller again. It's capable of producing 8 volts.

Still keeping our options open to replace these drum brakes with disc brakes. As long as these new drum brakes continue to perform like this, we'll stick with them. However, not holding my breath. If braking starts to degrade for any reason, we won't attempt any further repairs---just replace 'em with disc brakes DIY.

[fj12ryder]

This is very interesting information since I was under the, apparent, misapprehension that Dexter axle company was owned by Lippert. Amazing how quickly wrong information can get spread around.

"...error will run half over the world while truth is putting on his boots to pursue her..."

[myredracer]

dougrainer wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
I thought Dexter makes the axles and sells them to Lippert as a complete unit.

I believe LCI owns Dexter now. Doug

AL-KO was acquired by Dexter in around 2014/2015 - news here.. When I was looking for info. on our bearings last year I got redirected to the new company and there was no longer an AL-KO contact. They had a new overall parent company name when I tried to talk to AL-KO last fall (can't remember it) Wasn't DEXKO when I called but they could have been in transition? Dexter and AL-KO still have their own websites which gives the impression they are independent. Lippert only acquired the assets of Dexter chassis and slide-outs in 2011. AFAIK, Lippert has no ownership in the Dexter/Al-KO axles. If anyone knows different, pls clarify.

We had the same problem as the OP with our first TT. Brakes never worked properly from new. Dealer kept blaming the brake controller and setting so we upgraded to a new P3 and no change. Took a whole year of sending emails to the dealer that they finally took things apart days before the warranty expired. They found blown seals and warped drums - replaced everything and it worked fine after that.

I removed and repacked the bearings on our current TT last year after 2 full seasons of use. Found leaking seals. There was 2 colors of grease and am positive it was the dealer that pumped grease in during the PDI and damaged the seals. When we had our TT into dealer for some warranty work after the 1st season, I asked them to do a bearing clean and repack. They said the seals were blown and wanted $1K to fix it. I spoke to AL-KO and they said they would talk to our dealer and get it fixed under warranty (I told the dealer what AL-KO said too). With 2 colors of grease in the axles, clearly nothing was done.

Two out of three TTs we have owned from new have had blown seals. Not very good odds. If we ever buy a new TT again, I'd be removing the drums for an inspection soon after ownership - can't trust the TT manufacturer, axle manufacturer or dealer.

[mike-s]

dougrainer wrote:
I will doublecheck, but the first link about LCI and Dexter is 6 years old. I am going from info in the past 4 to 6 months. Doug

The info in my links (DexKo and The Sterling Group) is from today. DexKo (which includes Dexter) and The Sterling Group both agree that The Sterling Group owns Dexter. The info in my link to Drew Industries shows that they own LCI. Here, I'll give you a link to LCI, too, which says "Lippert Components is a subsidiary of Drew Industries."

All of them know more about their respective companies than "your warranty clerk." Huh.

I tried to give you an excuse for your mistake, but you seem firm in your desire to be wrong.

[dougrainer]

mike-s wrote:

LarryJM wrote:
And that is not even necessarily the case. My Lippert axles are actually made by Henschen, Inc as shown in the following pics...

I think you have that backwards. Your Henschen axle was made by LCI. There are also reports of Henschen axles being made by Dexter.

It's not surprising that a small niche market player like Henschen would subcontract to the majors (LCI and Dexter). Maybe they just get the metal, and put their own torsion suspension inside. Who knows? But, that has nothing to do with the fact that LCI and Dexter (DexKo Global) are entirely different companies.

edit: Henschen was owned by GKN, but "GKN Henschen in Jackson Center Ohio closed its doors in 2010 after 65 years in business" according to their Facebook page.

dougrainer wrote:
LCI purchased Dexter. At this time Dexter still operates as a separate Company. I just verified this with our Warranty Clerk. Doug

No, LCI purchased what used to be Dexter Chassis, which made frames and slideouts, and is different than the Dexter which manufactures axles.

As I said, Dexter (axles and doors) is part of DexKo Global, which is "MAJORITY-OWNED by funds managed by The Sterling Group," a private equity company. LCI is owned by Drew Industries, a publicly traded company. They're competitors.

I will doublecheck, but the first link about LCI and Dexter is 6 years old. I am going from info in the past 4 to 6 months. Doug

[mike-s]

LarryJM wrote:
And that is not even necessarily the case. My Lippert axles are actually made by Henschen, Inc as shown in the following pics...

I think you have that backwards. Your Henschen axle was made by LCI. There are also reports of Henschen axles being made by Dexter.

It's not surprising that a small niche market player like Henschen would subcontract to the majors (LCI and Dexter). Maybe they just get the metal, and put their own torsion suspension inside. Who knows? But, that has nothing to do with the fact that LCI and Dexter (DexKo Global) are entirely different companies.

edit: Henschen was owned by GKN, but "GKN Henschen in Jackson Center Ohio closed its doors in 2010 after 65 years in business" according to their Facebook page.

dougrainer wrote:
LCI purchased Dexter. At this time Dexter still operates as a separate Company. I just verified this with our Warranty Clerk. Doug

No, LCI purchased what used to be Dexter Chassis, which made frames and slideouts, and is different than the Dexter which manufactures axles.

As I said, Dexter (axles and doors) is part of DexKo Global, which is "MAJORITY-OWNED by funds managed by The Sterling Group," a private equity company. LCI is owned by Drew Industries, a publicly traded company. They're competitors.

[dougrainer]

mike-s wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
I thought Dexter makes the axles and sells them to Lippert as a complete unit.

I believe LCI owns Dexter now. Doug

LCI and Dexter are completely different. Dexter Axle (and AL-KO, the combination is now known as DexKo Global) is owned by The Sterling Group, a private equity firm. Lippert (LCI) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Drew Industries (NYSE: DW). Dexter doesn't make axles for LCI, that would be silly, LCI makes their own.

LCI purchased Dexter. At this time Dexter still operates as a separate Company. I just verified this with our Warranty Clerk. Doug

[LarryJM]

mike-s wrote:

dougrainer wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
I thought Dexter makes the axles and sells them to Lippert as a complete unit.

I believe LCI owns Dexter now. Doug

LCI and Dexter are completely different. Dexter Axle (and AL-KO, the combination is now known as DexKo Global) is owned by The Sterling Group, a private equity firm. Lippert (LCI) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Drew Industries (NYSE: DW). Dexter doesn't make axles for LCI, that would be silly, LCI makes their own.

And that is not even necessarily the case. My Lippert axles are actually made by Henschen, Inc as shown in the following pics... The actual make of the axle is not on those labels, but is on a "METAL TAG" that is welded to the axle somewhere.

Henschen tag:



Lippert label on same axle:



NOTE THE 700lb delta between the 2800 on the Henschen tag and the 3500 Lipert label:E:S:h:E

Larry

[mike-s]

dougrainer wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
I thought Dexter makes the axles and sells them to Lippert as a complete unit.

I believe LCI owns Dexter now. Doug

LCI and Dexter are completely different. Dexter Axle (and AL-KO, the combination is now known as DexKo Global) is owned by The Sterling Group, a private equity firm. Lippert (LCI) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Drew Industries (NYSE: DW). Dexter doesn't make axles for LCI, that would be silly, LCI makes their own.

[rjsurfer]

After 9 years of crappy brakes the $1,500 (i did the install) I spent on disk brakes was the best thing I did for the camper.

Even after changing out the all four brake assemblies I was never happy. That was the biggest reason for never letting the wife drive. It's hard enough driving one of these rigs without having her play with the brake controller for different driving situations. That was the only way I could get "acceptable" braking response.

Remember too the brake cleaners sold today will never do a good job of cleaning grease soaked brake shoes, so even if you accept taking the drums off every year you would still need to buy new shoes if they where contaminated.

I get mad just typing this post thinking about the crappy drum brakes they put on campers today.

Ron W

[RinconVTR]

otrfun wrote:

Second Chance wrote:
No, Lippert does not use Zerk or "easy lube" fittings on these axles . . .

Here's a pic of one of the Lippert 7k axles on our TH. Does Grand Design use a different type of Lippert 7k axle on their units?

Grand Design does not use any different axles than other OEM's, but their weight specs do get weird in some cases.

Any who. What was meant about nut using the EZlube grease fitting was not that is doesn't exist on ALL Grand Design units (they do) but that they do not use the zerk fitting for filling/adding grease to the bearing and hub.

That leaves the EZlube zerk and system out of the equation, entirely.

And yes, Grand Design owners have a significant number of members with leaking seals and plenty of shared images to prove it.

I am one of the lucky ones with lighter (smaller diameter axle and seal) 3500k rated axles with zero (ok may be one if you split hairs) reports of leaks.

The VAST majority or leakers are on their 5th wheel units with no known root cause of failure or proof of a fix despite anything you read as of this date.

[dougrainer]

azdryheat wrote:
I thought Dexter makes the axles and sells them to Lippert as a complete unit.

I believe LCI owns Dexter now. Doug

[azdryheat]

I thought Dexter makes the axles and sells them to Lippert as a complete unit.