Looking into Inverters Options

[Moomba2002]

Looking for options on a 2000 watt inverter for occasional use. I was wondering what other brands people have installed as I know of Xantrex but not sure I want to spend that much right now. Looking forward to seeing some options. Thanks for the feedback.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

If all you will ever need is 2000 watts the Prowatt PSW is a "no brainer" compared to a similar power rated MSW unit.

[ken_white]

BFL13 wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Try this specification on for size...

Using 120 volts as the norm and a starting resting battery voltage of 12.7, how many instant amperes does it take to draw down the battery to 12.00 volts? 11.7 volts? 11.5 volts.

A CCA rating for a battery gives an idea of instant potential but remember, the CCA test rating is for 9.6 volts - far below the voltage minimum needed by an inverter.

Can a single battery power a 2,000 watt inverter? Yes. At it's maximum design output potential? No. For a useful length of time? No. A person may argue "But how about at lower power settings?" My answer to that is "Why was a 2,000 watt inverter chosen in the first place?"

Time for fun:

Same set of batteries, measure the kWh extraction out of batteries powering a MSW inverter which powers a microwave oven. Then substitute a pure sine wave inverter and see how much ENERGY is extracted out of the batteries to heat a liter of water to 60C. This is different than the time element, right? The PSW heats the water faster. But how about the amount of battery energy needed to heat the water? Compare the two. Forget about time. Concentrate solely on how many kWh or fractions thereof was needed to do the job. Inductive motors don't utilize modified sine wave energy the same way as they utilize pure sine wave energy. Same goes for transformers.

I have reported a few times that my MSW 2000w inverter only draws 110a from the battery bank where a PSW would draw 155 amps. It takes a little longer to heat things up, but Peukert gives the advantage to the MSW for AH draw to the MSW at lower amps despite the longer time.

Using the Panasonic Inverter type MW with PSW but setting the MW at lower power might get similar results. Longer heating time but lower amps, and Peukert jumps in to call that fewer AH to get the job done.

Obviously there are limits to all that to be practical.

---- There have been several threads on this topic of 12s vs 6s with high amp draws and how AGMs seem able to do better than wets too. idea is to stay above 11 volts inverter alarm while running the load and how low can the SOC be at the start of the run. To run 100a at 50% SOC you need four 6s or three 12s with wets, and ISTR two AGM 12s.

A MSW Inverter produces a voltage output that is rich in harmonic frequency content.

The abundant frequency components effect power supply performance significantly by increasing core losses in transformers, increasing losses within electrolytic capacitors, changing peak/average charging current values through diodes, etc..., etc...

Any line power connected device that requires input power transformation will be adversely effected by a MSW Inverter to some degree.

I would not just look at Inverter efficiency when deciding, but also quality of service which a PSW Inverter provides since equipment is designed based on a PSW input.

[n7bsn]

I installed a 600w Prowatt (with relay) and found it to be ideal for our needs. What we do (road days) is put dinner in the crockpot, put that in the sink, and dinner cooks as a drive. Come dinner time, we have a hot meal ready to go.

[westend]

I have a Samlex SSW-600 and it will not pull 1000w starting loads, it's also noisy. Don't know if I got a bad one if they're all like that. I also have a Xantrex Prowatt 1000w and it is a beast. Also silent.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

Best bang for the buck is a Prowatt 2000 PSW $355.00. However, it is a throw away if it fails.

[OnaQuest]

My Samlex 2012A (2KW) PSW Inverter/Charger with 4 GC2s, works very well for me.

[deleted-2]

As far as brands go Samlex works for mee...

Bought a 300 watt pure sine recently and I just ordered a 600 watt with a remote switch from Don Rowe for another project.

Nice units they seem very well made.

[BFL13]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Try this specification on for size...

Using 120 volts as the norm and a starting resting battery voltage of 12.7, how many instant amperes does it take to draw down the battery to 12.00 volts? 11.7 volts? 11.5 volts.

A CCA rating for a battery gives an idea of instant potential but remember, the CCA test rating is for 9.6 volts - far below the voltage minimum needed by an inverter.

Can a single battery power a 2,000 watt inverter? Yes. At it's maximum design output potential? No. For a useful length of time? No. A person may argue "But how about at lower power settings?" My answer to that is "Why was a 2,000 watt inverter chosen in the first place?"

Time for fun:

Same set of batteries, measure the kWh extraction out of batteries powering a MSW inverter which powers a microwave oven. Then substitute a pure sine wave inverter and see how much ENERGY is extracted out of the batteries to heat a liter of water to 60C. This is different than the time element, right? The PSW heats the water faster. But how about the amount of battery energy needed to heat the water? Compare the two. Forget about time. Concentrate solely on how many kWh or fractions thereof was needed to do the job. Inductive motors don't utilize modified sine wave energy the same way as they utilize pure sine wave energy. Same goes for transformers.

I have reported a few times that my MSW 2000w inverter only draws 110a from the battery bank where a PSW would draw 155 amps. It takes a little longer to heat things up, but Peukert gives the advantage to the MSW for AH draw to the MSW at lower amps despite the longer time.

Using the Panasonic Inverter type MW with PSW but setting the MW at lower power might get similar results. Longer heating time but lower amps, and Peukert jumps in to call that fewer AH to get the job done.

Obviously there are limits to all that to be practical.

---- There have been several threads on this topic of 12s vs 6s with high amp draws and how AGMs seem able to do better than wets too. idea is to stay above 11 volts inverter alarm while running the load and how low can the SOC be at the start of the run. To run 100a at 50% SOC you need four 6s or three 12s with wets, and ISTR two AGM 12s.

[dadwolf2]

Since this started in the truck camper forum I have a question. Why do you want a 2000 watt inverter? When I was ordering my TC two years ago a couple forum members who were helping me get the options "I needed" kept telling me I needed to get the $2000, 2000 watt Xantrex prosine inverter option installed. Long story short, I didn't get that option but got a smaller/cheaper inverter and I haven't used it yet. Like others have mentioned, you need a pretty large battery bank to utilize that much A/C power. When my wife wants to blow dry her hair or use the toaster, I fire up the Honda generator for a few minutes. Otherwise I use my solar and 2 AGM batteries and all is good.

[2oldman]

Samlex.

[Canadian_Rainbi]

wa8yxm wrote:
First you need at least 200 amp hours of battery per kilowatt of inverter. So you need 2 pair of GC-2 or better for a 2,000 watt inverter.

I will not recommend a brand.. I use a Xantrex myself (prosine 2.0 no longer made) but I will recommend a type TRUE SINE WAVE.

Why.. I read about many things that work weird on inverter power.. For example. Clocks racing, Microwaves cooking slower. Electric Blanket controllers smoking, NIGHT LIGHT CATCHING FIRE!!!. Radios making a really nasty noise, Sparklies on TV screens and more.

ALL these folks are using an MSW inverter.. Not one of them was using a True Sine Wave.

Here is the list of things that will not work with my Prosine:
Any device needing more than 2,000 watts to start.

I have the same inverter and am very happy with it. Running the microwave it draws 150 amps and more from my 4 GC rated at 484 AH. If 4 12V deep cycle would have fit I'd have gone that route. It didn't really like the 4 group 24s that were in there previously.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Try this specification on for size...

Using 120 volts as the norm and a starting resting battery voltage of 12.7, how many instant amperes does it take to draw down the battery to 12.00 volts? 11.7 volts? 11.5 volts.

A CCA rating for a battery gives an idea of instant potential but remember, the CCA test rating is for 9.6 volts - far below the voltage minimum needed by an inverter.

Can a single battery power a 2,000 watt inverter? Yes. At it's maximum design output potential? No. For a useful length of time? No. A person may argue "But how about at lower power settings?" My answer to that is "Why was a 2,000 watt inverter chosen in the first place?"

Time for fun:

Same set of batteries, measure the kWh extraction out of batteries powering a MSW inverter which powers a microwave oven. Then substitute a pure sine wave inverter and see how much ENERGY is extracted out of the batteries to heat a liter of water to 60C. This is different than the time element, right? The PSW heats the water faster. But how about the amount of battery energy needed to heat the water? Compare the two. Forget about time. Concentrate solely on how many kWh or fractions thereof was needed to do the job. Inductive motors don't utilize modified sine wave energy the same way as they utilize pure sine wave energy. Same goes for transformers.

[time2roll]

Artum Snowbird wrote:

smkettner wrote:
Minimum 100 amp hours for every 500w is the rule of thumb that I know.

I am wondering more about the current carrying capacity of the battery itself, not the available amp hours. Can the internals of deep discharge batteries handle high enough current to support the load?

You need 4 minimum of those Group 27/29 batteries to properly run a 2000w inverter in normal use such as 3 to 10 minutes microwave or hair dryer. If you plan to run something for an extended period like over an hour you will need more battery, much more. Those batteries are just over 100 amp hours.

[wa8yxm]

First you need at least 200 amp hours of battery per kilowatt of inverter. So you need 2 pair of GC-2 or better for a 2,000 watt inverter.

I will not recommend a brand.. I use a Xantrex myself (prosine 2.0 no longer made) but I will recommend a type TRUE SINE WAVE.

Why.. I read about many things that work weird on inverter power.. For example. Clocks racing, Microwaves cooking slower. Electric Blanket controllers smoking, NIGHT LIGHT CATCHING FIRE!!!. Radios making a really nasty noise, Sparklies on TV screens and more.

ALL these folks are using an MSW inverter.. Not one of them was using a True Sine Wave.

Here is the list of things that will not work with my Prosine:
Any device needing more than 2,000 watts to start.