microair easy start results

[ktmrfs]

Well, here is a summary of the microair easy start on my coleman MachIII 13.5KBTU AC.

First, the current results before installation. I had the supco soft start cap along with a 10 second time delay on the fan start.

Measured Peak current required to start is 60A,

Results with a single honda 2000
At low altitude, lower temps, with everything else off in the trailer, and the honda eco start OFF.
If I was lucky, the honda would struggle and start the AC, but note something to count on. The honda really struggled. above about 1000Ft or above about 85F, SOL, no way would it start the AC.

With honda 2000 in parallel,
If both had the eco throttle on, usually the honda voltage would drop low enough to have the Progessive Industries EMS relay chatter, even with the PI in bypass mode, voltage was dropping way low,
If one was off eco throttle, then it would start the AC without issues.

So, here is data after the easy start install. Which by the way was pretty straightforward, good instructions. And the easy start removes any start cap on the AC unit, but there IS a start cap INSIDE the easy start, along with the control board.

starting current on a 30A service using the 5 starts recomended before using a generator

No easy start 60A
easy start 1 27.6A
easy start 2 21.5A
easy start 3 22.4A
easy start 4 25.3A
easy start 5 25.0A

now, connected to a honda 2000 in eco mode,
no load honda Voltage 126V RMS
starting voltage sag 116V RMS
running voltage 123V RMS
peak starting current 22.0A

and the generator ramped up the rpm as it started, no overshoot in rpm, start was smooth.

So, IMHO success. We shall see when it hits 90F and 4,000 Ft to see if it will still start in eco mode, but I suspect it definitely will start fine with eco mode off.

Now, all that said, if you want to run the AC and much else you still will be out of luck. the easy start doesn't defy the laws of physics, so running current is still the same, so not much headroom left. But if you run honda's in parallel, running them in eco mode should work just fine.

[road-runner]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi,

If I add power factor correction to the air conditioner will it "play well" with the EasyStart?

Is there a device for that? The run capacitor is of course doing static PFC, but since the power factor changes with the voltage, waveform, and motor load the effectiveness of the correction varies. I suppose it's technologically possible to do active PFC on a load as large as an air conditioner. I've never see such a device, which of course doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When I've measured the power factor of a Dometic 13.5 unit under varying conditions, the worst power factor I observed was 0.93, not too shabby. An active device would have to introduce some power-stealing overhead and/or efficiency loss, so I'd question if in this case it could provide enough of a net improvement to be worth it. Maybe other air conditioners have a worse PF. I looked only one time.

[jharrell]

time2roll wrote:
If my thermostat is set to "fan on" and just the compressor cycles how will that affect the learning and operation of the Easy Start?

Far as I know the Easy-Start has no knowledge of the fan, it only connects to the compressor. It simply has a few second start delay, so as soon as thermostat calls for cooling and turns on the fan and compressor relay's the fan starts immediately and the the Easy-Start ramps up after a few seconds, spreading out the fan and compressor startup which also helps with the startup surge beyond what the Easy-start is doing for the compressor.

[time2roll]

Does Easy Start continue to learn each time or is it just fixed once the initial starts are complete?
Can the learning take place with normal cycling or is it better to manually cycle the equipment?
If my thermostat is set to "fan on" and just the compressor cycles how will that affect the learning and operation of the Easy Start?

Thanks again to the OP for posting data and thanks to the ES rep for posting real answers to the technical questions.

[jharrell]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi jharrell,

Music to my ears!

Any idea of the wattage draw on your 15k btu unit?

Thanks.

Depends on outside temperature, I have seen it pull up to 1600W but right now it's just pulling 1300W since its in the mid 70's outside.

The Magnum hybrid is interesting with solar and A/C running off it, right now my 320w of solar is putting out 225w and the Magnum is in Load Support VDC lowering the shore draw by about 2A so its only pulling 11A from the grid. Makes me want more solar!

Before the easy start the Magnum would complain with a overload randomly on A/C start and shutdown even when plugged into shore. Pretty sure the LRA of the compressor was dropping the line voltage below disconnect threshold, then the inverter would disconnect shore and try and start the compressor on its own going into overload. I had disconnect voltage dropped all the way to 60V still did it, Magnum only needs one cycle below 60V to trip. This is a a bug in my mind, but Magnum disagreed.

Anyway Easy-Start solved it and allowed me to start and run the A/C completely off battery if I want. IMO all RV A/C should have an integrated Easy-start from the factory, so much easier on everything. Actually R/V A/C's should be efficient inverter based compressors like a modern mini-split.

[pianotuna]

Hi,

If I add power factor correction to the air conditioner will it "play well" with the EasyStart?

Micro-Air wrote:


6) The EasyStart does not do any power factor correction for the compressor. Once the start-up is over with, the EasyStart switches out its solid-state electronics with an internal power relay, and restores the compressor configuration to normal. The EasyStart of course continues monitoring the compressor during steady-state running for the various fault conditions it detects.

[Micro-Air]

pianotuna wrote:
When training the Micro-Air, would it be wise to use an autoformer to support the voltage? Or does the unit want to see voltage sag?

Is there an "ideal" voltage to train at?

Does the new 5 minute delay mean that I can "train" by switching off the air conditioner and then turning it back on in 30 seconds?

Do you have any information on using the Micro-Air with hybrid inverter/chargers such as the Magnum 3012 which are equipped with a "load support" (not voltage

support) feature? I.E. do they "play well together"?

pianotuna wrote:
Any idea of the wattage draw on your 15k btu unit?

pianotuna wrote:
Does the Micro Air do power factor correction?

1)The reason we recommend that the 5-start learning process be done on utility power is because it is preferred that the voltage not sag during the learning starts. In this way the critical measurements that the EasyStart is doing (and remembering) during each start are consistent, repeatable, and valid when compared.

2) During learning, the voltage should be at least 110V, but more importantly as stated above, it should be a reasonably consistent voltage that stays within +/-5V,if possible. Once learning is complete, EasyStart will tolerate voltage variation that is extreme, even down past the point where any compressor would be stalled out.

3) The built-in short-cycle prevention timer does allow you to let the EasyStart control the delay and set the pace during back-to-back restarts.

4) We have dozens of customers who have used the EasyStart on many models of Magnum inverter. We own a Magnum 2812 at Micro-Air (which is less wattage than the MSH3012, and is not a hybrid type), and have done extensive testing with even 18k marine units starting and running with success using the EasyStart. Solar/inverter RV refit companies use our EasyStart all the time so they can start and run A/C units even on 2000W inverters, both standard and hybrids (with load support).

5) The wattage of a 15kBTU rooftop varies between manufacturers. We own a 15k Dometic Penguin II and it has an RLA of 15.5A (fan + compressor), but we typically measure it as drawing in the 14.5-15.0A range.

6) The EasyStart does not do any power factor correction for the compressor. Once the start-up is over with, the EasyStart switches out its solid-state electronics with an internal power relay, and restores the compressor configuration to normal. The EasyStart of course continues monitoring the compressor during steady-state running for the various fault conditions it detects.

[pianotuna]

Does the Micro Air do power factor correction?

[MEXICOWANDERER]

With a puff of black smoke my Kubota pushes 150% power with a kubota part # 16881-17010 turbo kit. A Mitsubishi made part. I personally found engine ignition timing to be far more effective than re-jetting but maybe that's me 🙂

[Chinolbz]

A couple of years age I was looking at Yamaha Gensets and e-mailed Yamaha to ask about high-altitude jets. The Tech that responded had no idea why I would want such an item! I bought a Honda and bought jets at my local Dealer. Of course I am one of very few that would take the time to swap-out jets. Chino

[pianotuna]

Hi jharrell,

Music to my ears!

Any idea of the wattage draw on your 15k btu unit?

Thanks.

jharrell wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Kt,

Thanks for the information. I've ordered a unit. I'm hoping that with the kit the Magnum inverter will not display the red overload light.

It will resolve the overload. With the Easy start my Magnum 3000 will start and run my 15k btu Coleman on two Lifeline GPL-4CTs for about 30-45 minutes.

[jharrell]

pianotuna wrote:
Hi Kt,

Thanks for the information. I've ordered a unit. I'm hoping that with the kit the Magnum inverter will not display the red overload light.

It will resolve the overload. With the Easy start my Magnum 3000 will start and run my 15k btu Coleman on two Lifeline GPL-4CTs for about 30-45 minutes.

[SoundGuy]

ewarnerusa wrote:
I bought a Micro Air this spring that I'll be installing sometime soon. We have a Yamaha 2400 inverter gen that is not currently up to the task of running the AC when it is hot and we are camping up high. We live at around 4000' elevation and regularly camp above 6000'.

According to info in this rv.net discussion your EF2400iS would benefit by switching out the stock jet which is rated to just 4500' to the next smaller size rated for 4500' to 8000'. Micro-Air seems is on to something here but it's not designed to compensate for incorrect jetting.

[ewarnerusa]

Following.
I bought a Micro Air this spring that I'll be installing sometime soon. We have a Yamaha 2400 inverter gen that is not currently up to the task of running the AC when it is hot and we are camping up high. We live at around 4000' elevation and regularly camp above 6000'.

[SoundGuy]

Micro-Air wrote:
Regarding altitude and the Honda EU2000i, we recently worked with 2 different customers who did run into some trouble. Turns out, up to about 3000, all seems okay with the Honda EU2000i. However, we had one customer at 4600' and another at 5300', and they both needed to install the high-altitude carburetor jet kit to get the Honda to keep running after the startup was over with.

NO aftermarket product, Micro-Air Easy Start or any similar device, should be expected to compensate for incorrect jetting. :R This EU2000i Technical Bulletin makes it quite clear that Honda considers the stock #62 jet suitable only for use up to 5000', between 5000' and 10,000' the next smaller #60 should be used, above 10,000' a #58. For any results to be conclusive one would have to know for a fact that the EU2000i in question was in proper operating condition, not just a unit of "some" age with unknown numbers of hours on it and no known regular maintenance that may or may not have met the manufacturer's specifications.

[road-runner]

Micro-Air wrote:
We all know that that the Honda will maintain 2000W just fine without declaring overloads up to 16.7A (2000W).

I'm sorry, some of "we" know different. My eu2000i tops out a bit over 1900VA even at sea level, and if you'd been following eu2000i forum posts for the past 10 years you'd have found multiple similar reports. At 3,000 feet, mine will barely hold 1600VA after it gets hot. Put a big load on it on a 90+ degree day and it will produce 1800VA or so for a few minutes, then it tapers down to 1600. Maybe you have an eu2000i that randomly has "pick of the litter" components and will produce 2000VA. With the air conditioner's non-unity power factor, you're not getting 2000 watts when the generator is producing 2000VA.

Following this thread is kind of amusing. Five years ago there was a group reporting success running a 13.5 air conditioner with the eu2000i. They were bombarded with predictions of doom that the generator and air conditioner would be ruined (from long-term running, not from starting). Now the consensus seems to be that it's perfectly ok. Reminds me of things like a few years ago eating eggs would kill you, and today it's ok.