Off grid power 101

[Hammerboy]

Hey all

Long time rv'er but never but never a dry camper. As time goes on the more I want to try or even get into it more but first I would need to set up the fifth wheel do so. I understand the concept of conserving power, water, etc.

My question is what would be your priority list be and in terms of importance? What are the costs of each item? If you gave your self a $500 starter budget what would it be? Would I need more $$?

When it comes to batteries, solar, electrical, I am limited in knowledge in this area. I hear things like needing to upgrade your converter, getting a good battery moniter, etc and those are things I wouldn't have thought about. Aside from needing a generator I'm assuming the first baby step would be to upgrade my cheap stock 12v battery to a pair of 6vs?

Thanks in advance for your knowlege

Dan

[Hammerboy]

Almot wrote:
- why the OP, after spending quite a lot on hookups, wants to spend very little on offgrid.

I think the OP is long gone, anyway.

Nope, still here.

Why I set an small initial budget you ask? Simply because why spend a lot of money on something we may not like at all?. If we decide we like boon docking we can go on from there. A step at a time.

Dan

[Almot]

There are two kinds of boondockers - those who understand basics of electricity and those who run generators 🙂

Seriously though, this is the easiest way. The cheapest it is eventually not. A bit puzzling why budget constraints came into play, in the first place - why the OP, after spending quite a lot on hookups, wants to spend very little on offgrid.

I think the OP is long gone, anyway.

[theoldwizard1]

campigloo wrote:
Hi Hammerboy
I’m in an almost identical position you’re in. Didn’t know if we’d even like dry camping so I bought a little Ryobi 1800w gen. I really like the remote shut off. I bought an extra 12v deep cycle battery and I changed all the bulbs to led. We learned a lot this summer.
.
.
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Jist of the story, get a small gen, a cheap battery and give it whirl. We now feel much better about a substantial investment in solar.

Great comment ! Especially if you are NOT going to start out with an inverter.

campigloo, when it comes time for new batteries, seriously consider two 6V golf cart batteries. I don't know what you are using for charging from your generator but I would go with an inverter charger. Almost all of these have multi-stage chargers as opposed to most converters that have single stage chargers.

Disconnect the DC distribution panel from the converter and hook it directly up to your battery bank.

[campigloo]

Hi Hammerboy
I’m in an almost identical position you’re in. Didn’t know I’d we’d even like dry camping so I bought a little Ryobi 1800w gen. I really like the remote shut off. I bought an extra 12v deep cycle battery and I changed all the bulbs to led. We learned a lot this summer. One thing was we really like the concept and opportunities. We now have a much better understanding of what our electric needs really are. They’re not as much as we first thought. Now, I’m shopping for a small roof top ac for just the bedroom. Jist of the story, get a small gen, a cheap battery and give it whirl. We now feel much better about a substantial investment in solar.
Happy travels!

PS. Would like to hear what you end up with.

[Harvey51]

I’m an atypical RVer; we never plug in or hook up. No generator. It seemed to go well from day 1 in 2008 when we bought a former rental class C. However, on our first long trip the heater suddenly stopped working - dead batteries. I had been using the voltage method of monitoring the batteries, idiot lights and voltmeter. They are very optimistic, indicating nearly full charge with charging from the engine and for hours after charging. I bought two new deep cycle 12 volt batteries at $90 Canadian each. Luckily there had been some posts about inexpensive battery monitors here so I got one of these Ebay bargain
The new set of batteries lasted well as we stopped using them after 50% discharge. This was a bit tough but we had all LED lights, no invertor so couldn’t use the microwave and liked cool sleeping so the heater was only used in the morning. I also worked on the engine charging system, eliminating a drop of 1.5 volts from engine battery to house batteries which had made that charging ineffective.

Step 2 was getting a solar panel. Just one, 100 watts from Renogy with charge controller, via Amazon for $200 Canadian. Most people need more but 100 watts is more than adequate for us using just the heater, water pump, fridge on propane (2004 model with no defrost feature), and charging the usual phones and tablets. The batteries have never gone below 80% charge since getting the solar panel!

[Almot]

What Time2roll said - just go. You don't know your energy needs - or don't tell it, so 101 is going to be long. Start doing it.

120V kitchen devices draw the most energy - microwave, toaster, coffeemaker. Furnace is a close runner-up. If you can use propane stove for cooking and making coffee, and are willing to conserve energy, you are good to go for a weekend in a warm weather even with 1 battery.

$500 can be too little or too much, depends on your goals. For somebody without much knowledge I would consider a portable 100W solar suitcase. It will keep your battery topped up for a few days if you are trying to conserve energy. Spend the rest on the second 12 battery and a "kind of" battery monitor, $40 on Ebay. If your old 12V battery is too old, then get 2*6V.

You'll figure the inverter thing later.

You don't have to carry a generator to camp offgrid. I know that Time2roll doesn't, and he is not living in "survival mode" either. The only thing that is (almost) impossible without a generator is the air-conditioner.

[rcjunkie]

660 amp hours of battery capacity
600 watts of solar
Trimetric Battery monitor
1500 watt inverter with remote switch and auto transfer switch.

No generator ever needed when we camp.

[WillT]

Oasisbob wrote:
I looked into solar but did not feel it penciled out for us.

We generally dry camp as long as possible till the tank is full also.
But everyone is different and that is why reading everything you can find will help you decide ahead of time what is right for you.

I installed 540 watts of solar and have been very happy. Even in cloudy weather it keeps batteries charged. IF we were heavier users of a/c appliances and had a big inverter, I would add another panel and 2 more six volt batteries. We carry a generator but never use it. Keep it with us only in case we have to move early in the morning after running the furnace at night. In that situation, it is possible that the slide would not want to come in if the batteries were not close to full. Has not happened yet, but we still carry the generator.

It is really nice to not have to think about the batteries or to deal with running the generator. But that is just us. As I said above to the original poster, read and learn all you can. I started from zero and got to the point where I successfully installed our solar from scratch all alone after getting advice from AM Solar on the best components currently available to do what I thought we needed.

[theoldwizard1]

camperdave wrote:
Step 1 is to get a good battery monitor. I don't know what the latest one to get is, ...

Step ZERO is knowledge ! Read everything you can about the subject.

I agree with Step 1.

Step 2 was already mentioned. KNOW YOUR LOADS ! If you are going to use an inverter, don't expect to be able to use the coffee maker and the toaster at the same time.

Related to Step 2, is what can you run directly on 12VDC. It is always more efficient to run as much as you can off of 12VDC.

Last, for $500, you are not going to get much. Maybe ONE 12V non-deep cycle battery, a 100W solar panel and a 1000W modified sine wave inverter. Realistically, you want a PAIR of 6V golf cart batteries, at least 300W of solar, and a GOOD 1000W inverter charger like a Samlex EVO-1212F. With all of that, you are likely pushing $2000 !

Bonus ! With a GOOD invert/charger you can dump what is likely the weakest leg of your current DC power system, the converter !

[DrewE]

Running air conditioning without a decently sized generator--over 2 kVA generally speaking--or a shore power connection is impractical.

It is (perhaps just barely) possible if you have a very large solar setup and a very large battery bank...one or two people here do that, at least on a limited basis. But for ordinary people with ordinary budgets it makes no sense. Open windows with a fan, parking in a shady spot (which obviously doesn't help with solar power generation, but does help in keeping the temperatures cooler), and generally going someplace where it isn't super hot are viable options.

Here in New England, air conditioning is closer to a luxury than to a basic requirement nearly all the time.

[bpounds]

I respect all opinions, but battery meters and power surveys? Never had any need or desire. I do use an accurate voltage meter. It tells me all I need to know. You can turn this all into a science project, but it is really basic stuff. You already know what uses the power in your camping lifestyle, and it isn't hard to figure out what stuff draws.

For the OP, you have to figure out what you cannot live without, before you can figure out what you will need. My family gets by with the minimum. We came from tent camping to where we are now, so it was a no-brainer stuff to us. No electric coffee pots. No hair dryers. No electric toasters. Definitely no A/C or microwave. One of the luxuries we sometimes use is the microwave, and we simply fire up the genny if we want that. Same with A/C, but mainly we choose to not boondock where A/C would be required. None of this is right or wrong, it is just decisions that you have to make.

Just last weekend I installed an inverter, dedicated to the TV. What a luxury! I guess I am in danger of losing my minimalist cred.

Managing power to us means planning to run the generator for charging, while we take showers or do dishes. The water pump is the largest use of DC, second only to the HV system. Might as well run it while the converter is putting out a strong 14+ volts. The water flow is better too, so a side benefit.

We've got solar charging now, but I'm approaching your question from the perspective of not having it. Because it is out of the question given the $500 budget target.

[Hammerboy]

Thanks for the tips so far. Our fifth wheel has the gas/electric fridge so that's good. 100% LED lights that's a plus. Rarely use the microwave as we do most of our cooking with the Camp Chef stove so we can easily do without using the micro on a dry trip. I do have a Kureg for coffee but I wouldn't use it but use a kettle and a french press for that. Charging phones and maybe a couple hours of tv, water pump, minimal use of lights, etc. Maybe I can even talk the wife out of using her hair dryer... 🙂

The only thing I am wondering is without major investment I'm assuming air conditioning is out unless I have a 3000 watt generator I assume, which wouldn't work in a generator free area. Lot's to learn.

Dan

[marcsbigfoot20b]

I mostly dry camp around 9-10 days in a row.
Black tank is my limiting factor.
You can always pack a few 5 gallon jugs of fresh water.
Grey water, we wash our hands using the outside shower (sometimes dishes or corn on the cob water) all goes into the 5 gallon home depot bucket for putting out the campfire every night.

The power stuff I went double double.
Built in Onan 2500LP, Honda EU2200i, 360 watts solar, 3 AGM grp 31 batteries (300 AH total), 2000 watt PSW inverter, 100 watt home made suitcase solar backup.

Batteries have a shunt with in and out meters.

[camperdave]

Step 1 is to get a good battery monitor. I don't know what the latest one to get is, but I have a link-10 that is by far the best investment in off grid camping I've made.

Once you have the monitor, you will begin to understand the relationship between your batteries, loads, and charging. Then you will have a better understanding of what you need for the way you camp.

And buy a bin the size of your sink to do dishes in so you can dump the wash water in the bushes instead of down there grey tank.

That's my $.02