Problem with Progressive Industries HW50C built in Surge

[Butch50]

I'm having problems with my built in Progressive Industries HW50C. When I apply either 50A or 30A to my trailer the remote control shows no errors but well not let power through. The power is coming from my shop that I wired and have both 30 and 50 available. I have over the years had 4 other RVs plugged into this 2 service plugs. The remote control shows no errors.

So I plugged in my Surge Guard 34830 Portable RV Surge Protector With LCD Display- 30 Amp into the outlet and let it go through its cycle and after about 2 minutes the remote surge protector allowed power to the trailer. No errors on external also. Went into the trailer and switched to remote and everything is working.

A couple of days ago I turned it on with just the built in surge protector and it did the same thing so I used the bypass switch on the remote and I heard it thunk and then put it back to normal and it worked. I would not have switched to bypass at any campground but I know my power is good. Tonight when I turned power onto the trailer it wouldn't let it go through again tried the bypass and heard the thunk from box and had power but when I turned it back to normal it again would not allow power.

This unit is in a trailer that is about 6 months old and it was a brand new unit.

Any thoughts before I call PI which I hope to have a chance to tomorrow.

I was planning to not carry my 30A external but now I think it well have a place in the trailer. The 30A is almost brand new also bought it just before we replaced our last 30A unit.

Thanks

[ktmrfs]

SoundGuy wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Actually PI EMS the trip delay on low voltage is 6 seconds.

Bad ground is instant. High voltage I don't know but speculate it is instant as I agree it should be.

Message here:


11/4/16

(to me), If the voltage falls below 104 Vac for more than 6 seconds, the EMS will disconnect. A loss of ground will cause an instantaneous disconnect. When an error occurs and then the cause clears, the time delay starts. In your example, if the error occurs every sixty seconds, power would not be restored, because the delay would be resetting to zero each time.


Regards,

Customer Support

919 267-6964

Interesting reply from Progressive, especially since without proof I question it's veracity. 😉 I own a calibrated DVM and used it to calibrate my own EMS-HW30C's voltage readout which as delivered was wildly inaccurate so I am familiar with the inner workings of this device. I also know from personal experience while camping that my unit does trip the instant incoming source voltage falls below it's low voltage trip threshold of 104 vac. Of course the most accurate method to confirm this would be on the workbench, using a calibrated DVM and Variac as a source supply. This I could have easily done back during my career days but now that I'm retired I no longer have access to a Variac and I'm sure not going to buy one just to prove Progressive's claim, one way or the other. My question however is - if their EMS does in fact feature a 6" low voltage nuisance trip delay where is that information in any of their documentation or even online? Common sense says the manufacturer would want to advertise this feature IF indeed it does exist, yet I haven't seen it. :R

mine behaves like yours. and a 6 second delay seems like a BAD idea. if it drops below 104 then continues to drop, say to 80 volts a few seconds later and takes 4 more seconds to disconnect? not likely. I could see it taking a few cycles but not 6 seconds.

Now if the delay is coupled with another voltage limit such that for a few seconds it can go to 102V and then back up to 105 without tripping, yes, that I can see.

[SoundGuy]

time2roll wrote:
Actually PI EMS the trip delay on low voltage is 6 seconds.

Bad ground is instant. High voltage I don't know but speculate it is instant as I agree it should be.

Message here:


11/4/16

(to me), If the voltage falls below 104 Vac for more than 6 seconds, the EMS will disconnect. A loss of ground will cause an instantaneous disconnect. When an error occurs and then the cause clears, the time delay starts. In your example, if the error occurs every sixty seconds, power would not be restored, because the delay would be resetting to zero each time.


Regards,

Customer Support

919 267-6964

Interesting reply from Progressive, especially since without proof I question it's veracity. 😉 I own a calibrated DVM and used it to calibrate my own EMS-HW30C's voltage readout which as delivered was wildly inaccurate so I am familiar with the inner workings of this device. I also know from personal experience while camping that my unit does trip the instant incoming source voltage falls below it's low voltage trip threshold of 104 vac. Of course the most accurate method to confirm this would be on the workbench, using a calibrated DVM and Variac as a source supply. This I could have easily done back during my career days but now that I'm retired I no longer have access to a Variac and I'm sure not going to buy one just to prove Progressive's claim, one way or the other. My question however is - if their EMS does in fact feature a 6" low voltage nuisance trip delay where is that information in any of their documentation or even online? Common sense says the manufacturer would want to advertise this feature IF indeed it does exist, yet I haven't seen it. :R

[time2roll]

SoundGuy wrote:

laknox wrote:
Is there an alternative to the PI systems?

Sure - the TRC Surge Guard has traditionally been bagged here on the forums, mostly because of a one year warranty, but new ones now being sold include a limited lifetime warranty as well. Models like the 34830 and 34850 also have a feature the PI units do not - a trip delay of ~ 8" which helps to avoid nuisance trips caused by incoming source voltage that hovers slightly above and below the set trip voltage. I currently am running a hard wire Progressive EMS-HW30C but if I had reason to buy another I'd most likely replace it with a TRC 34830 and install it inside the camper, just as I did years ago with my first Surge Guard, and early version of this same EMS.

Actually PI EMS the trip delay on low voltage is 6 seconds.

Bad ground is instant. High voltage I don't know but speculate it is instant as I agree it should be.

Message here:


11/4/16

(to me), If the voltage falls below 104 Vac for more than 6 seconds, the EMS will disconnect. A loss of ground will cause an instantaneous disconnect. When an error occurs and then the cause clears, the time delay starts. In your example, if the error occurs every sixty seconds, power would not be restored, because the delay would be resetting to zero each time.


Regards,

Customer Support

919 267-6964

[CAMarshall]

SoundGuy wrote:
Here's yet another classic example of ***Link Removed*** - TRC EMS units now do include a lifetime warranty and conveniently the author neglects to mention the trip feature which PI units do not offer.

Thank you for pointing out that the Surge Protector page on Camp Addict had old information. We were already aware of this and have updated the page to reflect the limited lifetime warranty that Southwire (formerly TRC) now offers.

What trip feature did I neglect to mention?

Thanks,
Marshall
Camp Addict Co-Founder

[SoundGuy]

laknox wrote:
Is there an alternative to the PI systems?

Cydog15 wrote:
I don't think so. They are American made and no other is better. With a lifetime warranty and direct customer support, I'd not stray unless Bestconverter or somebody recommends something else.

Here's yet another classic example of outdated information - TRC EMS units now do include a lifetime warranty and conveniently the author neglects to mention the trip feature which PI units do not offer.

[Cydog15]

laknox wrote:
Is there an alternative to the PI systems? Seems the new owners don't have their stuff together on the portable model, as there are a number of reports of leaks causing failures, and now the hardwired ones seem to be having issues.

Lyle

I don't think so. They are American made and no other is better. With a lifetime warranty and direct customer support, I'd not stray unless Bestconverter or somebody recommends something else. I know it won't be the surge guard cause I bought one about 5 years ago and it was nothing but grief. I'd stay with the PI and let them take care of it. Remember you only hear about the few bad ones, not the 10s of thousands of good ones.

[SoundGuy]

laknox wrote:
Is there an alternative to the PI systems?

Sure - the TRC Surge Guard has traditionally been bagged here on the forums, mostly because of a one year warranty, but new ones now being sold include a limited lifetime warranty as well. Models like the 34830 and 34850 also have a feature the PI units do not - a trip delay of ~ 8" which helps to avoid nuisance trips caused by incoming source voltage that hovers slightly above and below the set trip voltage. I currently am running a hard wire Progressive EMS-HW30C but if I had reason to buy another I'd most likely replace it with a TRC 34830 and install it inside the camper, just as I did years ago with my first Surge Guard, and early version of this same EMS.

[laknox]

Is there an alternative to the PI systems? Seems the new owners don't have their stuff together on the portable model, as there are a number of reports of leaks causing failures, and now the hardwired ones seem to be having issues.

Lyle

[SoundGuy]

accsys wrote:
I don't really need to be looking for problems that actually don't need solved. When it quits supplying power to the coach I will replace it.

The point is your hard wire EMS clearly is not operating normally so although it eventually does switch on how do you know you don't have a potential fire issue sitting there ready to destroy your RV? Ignoring this makes no sense at all, especially when any repair should be covered under terms of your lifetime warranty. To each his own I guess ... good luck. :R

[accsys]

SoundGuy wrote:
So with that logic I suppose one wouldn't bother seeing their doctor about chest pains they've been having, saying they're not dead yet so why bother? Yeah, that's logical. :S

I think there is quite a difference between a very slight aggravation and something that will kill you! I am 73, have had three stents, and will need a bypass most likely in the not too distant future. I have lived longer than any male in my family going back to my great grandfather. My sister who was born when I was home on boot camp leave had a quad bypass when she was in her 40s.

I don't really need to be looking for problems that actually don't need solved. When it quits supplying power to the coach I will replace it.

[Butch50]

accsys wrote:
Sometimes our HW50C will take longer to let power through than it does at other times, sometimes up to 10 minutes. We are in no hurry and by the time we get through setting up, it always connects. That's not the way it's supposed to work but also in no hurry to replace it. :B

You know the funny thing after your post I went out and killed the breaker and took the portable 30A surge protector out of the path. Then turned the power back on and came in and had supper. After supper went out and it was working. So it appears to be the same as yours but I didn't pay all of this money for something that doesn't work right so I'll change the board out when I get a new one. I have only had mine for about 6 months so I want it to work the its supposed.

[SoundGuy]

accsys wrote:
Sometimes our HW50C will take longer to let power through than it does at other times, sometimes up to 10 minutes. We are in no hurry and by the time we get through setting up, it always connects. That's not the way it's supposed to work but also in no hurry to replace it. :B

SoundGuy wrote:
Seriously? :@ This certainly isn't "normal" so if you're the original owner with warranty coverage why would you not call Progressive to hear what they have to say? :h

accsys wrote:
It works so why waste time and effort replacing it. It's done this for four or five years and still working fine otherwise after over 200 stops in those years.

So with that logic I suppose one wouldn't bother seeing their doctor about chest pains they've been having, saying they're not dead yet so why bother? Yeah, that's logical. :S

[wa8yxm]

Sounds like PI gave you the solution.. Now I do not know about the new owners of that company but your unit came with a WARRANTY!!!!!!

Not many products do warranties yes but WARRANTIES!!! not so much.

[accsys]

SoundGuy wrote:

accsys wrote:
Sometimes our HW50C will take longer to let power through than it does at other times, sometimes up to 10 minutes. We are in no hurry and by the time we get through setting up, it always connects. That's not the way it's supposed to work but also in no hurry to replace it. :B

Seriously? :@ This certainly isn't "normal" so if you're the original owner with warranty coverage why would you not call Progressive to hear what they have to say? :h

It works so why waste time and effort replacing it. It's done this for four or five years and still working fine otherwise after over 200 stops in those years.