Running 2 Honda generators

[Butch50]

I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion. My RV has a EMS and when I hooked up the Yamaha and tried to run it and it was a no go. The EMS wouldn't allow power to the trailer. Then I found out that the inverter generators do not have the ground and neutral bonded. So I found on line how to make a bonded plug and did this and it worked fine then.

So after all that, if I have 2 2000i hooked together do I have to have a bonded plug in both generators or just one to make theEMS allow power?

Also does anyone know where I can get a good price on a 2000 Companion?

Thanks

[SoundGuy]

ktmrfs wrote:
But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.

Coleman Mach 3 P.S. compared to Coleman Mach 3 Plus ... same cooling ability but much lower continuous draw for the former would make powering this unit with a 2K genset much easier. :B

[ktmrfs]

SoundGuy wrote:

Butch50 wrote:
Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.

I suspect you and ktmrfs are confusing the terms "soft start", "soft starter", and "hard start". The Micro-Air Easy Start is a soft starter but unfortunately hard start devices such as the popular Supco SPP6 are often interchangeably referred to by some as "hard" start or "soft" start. If what you're saying is the Easy Start is not at all like an SPP6 then you're absolutely correct, otherwise I have no idea what is meant when you and ktmrfs say the Easy Start is not a "soft start". :h

FWIW, I've been using an SPP6 for years on a variety of A/C units to ease start up but a hard start like this certainly doesn't solve the problem of starting a 13,500 BTU A/C with a 2K genset like the EU2000i when elevation is anything above sea level and ambient temps are anywhere above the mid 80s F. We don't often use A/C when camping even though we most often have shore power available, otherwise if we did and knowing what I know now I'd be investing in a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, whether I ever intended to power it with a genset or not. 😉

I also tried gthe SPP6 kit and my experience is consistant with yours. sea level, 80F or so the honda gives a mighty grunt and fires up the AC. push into the 90's or go above 1000ft and it gives a might grunt, and then trips out.

with the easy start the honda just smoothly ramps up rpm and AC comes on. Now the limit is what is your density altitude? to high and you will eventually kick out the generator for long term overload.

But now there are the power saving AC units from Coleman and Dometic that drop the running current by several amps, very likely enough to use one honda 2000 even at 5000ft or so. I've run a coleman power cub with a 10A running current for hours on end at 8000ft with no problems on the honda 2000.

[SoundGuy]

Butch50 wrote:
I'm talking of installing the EasyStart. I watched the video of how the EasyStart cuts down the draw when the A/C first starts up. I wish it was a little cheaper though. It is a pretty expensive little unit.

I guess this depends on how you look at it ... while not inexpensive a Micro-Air Easy Start is far less expensive than having to own & operate 2 gensets or a larger 3000 watt genset like your Yamaha. JMO, but I'd sell the way too heavy Yamaha, invest in a Micro-Air Easy Start, and if your EU2000i sometimes proves insufficient because of altitude and/or ambient temperatures then consider replacing it with a new EU2200i which is no bigger and weighs no more than your EU2000i. As I said earlier it seems like a win - win to me. :B

[Butch50]

SoundGuy,

I'm talking of installing the EasyStart. I watched the video of how the EasyStart cuts down the draw when the A/C first starts up. I wish it was a little cheaper though. It is a pretty expensive little unit.

Thanks

[SoundGuy]

Butch50 wrote:
Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.

I suspect you and ktmrfs are confusing the terms "soft start", "soft starter", and "hard start". The Micro-Air Easy Start is a soft starter but unfortunately hard start devices such as the popular Supco SPP6 are often interchangeably referred to by some as "hard" start or "soft" start. If what you're saying is the Easy Start is not at all like an SPP6 then you're absolutely correct, otherwise I have no idea what is meant when you and ktmrfs say the Easy Start is not a "soft start". :h

FWIW, I've been using an SPP6 for years on a variety of A/C units to ease start up but a hard start like this certainly doesn't solve the problem of starting a 13,500 BTU A/C with a 2K genset like the EU2000i when elevation is anything above sea level and ambient temps are anywhere above the mid 80s F. We don't often use A/C when camping even though we most often have shore power available, otherwise if we did and knowing what I know now I'd be investing in a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, whether I ever intended to power it with a genset or not. 😉

[Butch50]

Yea, I meant to say EasyStart not soft start. I have watched a lot of videos on the EasyStart and it looks pretty straight forward install.

[SoundGuy]

Butch50 wrote:
You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it.

ktmrfs wrote:
soft start and easy start are completely different animals. soft start install are still often not successful. It wasn't in my case much above sea level. still to high LRA. micro air easy start, another story on starting, but see my posts on altitude limitiation for extended run.

Let's not confuse the issue - Micro-Air itself refers to their Easy Start as a Soft Starter ...

[SoundGuy]

ktmrfs wrote:
well, easily start yes. run, depends a lot on altitude. I have the easy start and yes even at 4500ft startup is easy peasy with the easy start. But I've found at about 3500-4000 ft is the limit for the honda 2000 and my coleman MachIII. Around 4000+ ft it will trip out on overload after 15-20 minutes. It's to close to the limit.

Now the new honda 2200, likely would work fine.

At that altitude your EU2000i with a stock #62 main jet would seem to be suffering ~ 15% power loss ...



So yes, an EU2200i just may offer enough more to solve this. Replacing a 13,500 BTU Coleman Mach III with a 13,500 BTU Coleman PS (Power Saving) model may be another solution ... or both. :W Above 5000' one would want to switch to the next size #60 jet, to a #58 above 10,000'.

[ktmrfs]

Butch50 wrote:
SoundGuy,

You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.

I guess try and find out if it works before investing some more money.

Thanks

soft start and easy start are completely different animals. soft start install are still often not successful. It wasn't in my case much above sea level. still to high LRA. micro air easy start, another story on starting, but see my posts on altitude limitiation for extended run.

[ktmrfs]

SoundGuy wrote:

Butch50 wrote:
SoundGuy,

You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.

There are several here on the forum who are now running their Easy Start equipped 13,500 BTU A/C with a single EU2000i with no problems at all as long as temps are under 100F and elevation is below ~ 5000' ... perhaps one of them will chime in on this discussion, otherwise just search for "Easy Start" and you're bound to find some testimonials. I just wish I'd known about the Micro-Air back when I owned my own EU2000i as I probably wouldn't have sold the genset after all.

YES, I have the easy start, used it quite a bit this last summer. Does what it claims, but the limit then becomes the generator output. I've found 3500ish ft is about the limit. 4500 ft no go after multiple attempts. yes, it started fine, but would consistently trip the overload after 15ish minutes. Again, no problem starting the AC, starts just fine, smooth as silk. And in my case I have a Coleman Mach III. Different AC may give different results on overload, but yes, somewhere between 4000 and 5000ft is likely the limit for any reasonable run time without overload.

Now the new honda 2200 likely would go from "almost" to "barely".

[ktmrfs]

SoundGuy wrote:

Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.

SoundGuy wrote:
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig :E, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.

Butch50 wrote:
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.

Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win. :B

well, easily start yes. run, depends a lot on altitude. I have the easy start and yes even at 4500ft startup is easy peasy with the easy start. But I've found at about 3500-4000 ft is the limit for the honda 2000 and my coleman MachIII. Around 4000+ ft it will trip out on overload after 15-20 minutes. It's to close to the limit.

Now the new honda 2200, likely would work fine.

[SoundGuy]

Butch50 wrote:
SoundGuy,

You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.

There are several here on the forum who are now running their Easy Start equipped 13,500 BTU A/C with a single EU2000i with no problems at all as long as temps are under 100F and elevation is below ~ 5000' ... perhaps one of them will chime in on this discussion, otherwise just search for "Easy Start" and you're bound to find some testimonials. I just wish I'd known about the Micro-Air back when I owned my own EU2000i as I probably wouldn't have sold the genset after all.

[wa8yxm]

Just the Companion

You may need to bond the 30 amp outlet however Not sure if the ground is conneted to the one on the 20 amp outlet. If it is not, jumper the back of the outlet

[Butch50]

SoundGuy,

You got it as I was planning on adding a soft start to my 13,500 A/C to aid in the starting of it. I just don't know if the one 2000 would start it by itself. I guess the best thing is to add it and try it. The only problem is I only live at about 1000' above sea level so it would not be the best test for higher elevations.

I guess try and find out if it works before investing some more money.

Thanks

[Itinerant1]

SoundGuy wrote:

Butch50 wrote:
I currently have a Yamaha 3000iseb and a Honda 2000i. I decided I didn't want to mess with the heavy Yamaha so am looking at a Honda 2000i Companion.

SoundGuy wrote:
Your Grand Design 303RLS is one heck of a big rig :E, is even available with dual A/Cs and can be wired with 50 amp service, none of which you've detailed in your post. Nonetheless, since you apparently don't want to deal with the weight of a larger genset like your 3K Yamaha you might consider selling both it and your EU2000i and using the proceeds to buy a pair of Honda's new EU2200i which will be even more capable of powering your rig than a pair of EU2000i paralleled gensets.

Butch50 wrote:
Yes my Reflection has 50 amp service and has 2 A/Cs. One 15,000 BTU and one 13,500 BTU. Most of the time the only one I would want to run is the 13,500. This would be just for an overnight stop when we don't have power and to recharge the batteries.

Well here's another solution. Keep your current EU2000i, sell the Yamaha, use a small portion of the proceeds to buy a Micro-Air Easy Start Soft Starter Kit, install it on your 13,500 BTU A/C, and pocket the rest of the cash you'll have left over to pay for a nice camping vacation. With your smaller A/C so equipped a single EU2000i will easily start and power it with no difficulty at all, you'll only ever have to deal with one 50 lb genset, won't have to fuss with a parallel kit, and you'll have cash back in your pocket to boot. If you later decide you really do need that second EU2000i then you can always add one later. Win - Win. :B

Good call SoundGuy. Those micro-air easy start seem to be the ticket. A lot of happy customers that install those.