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Solar panel system fires

NamMedevac_70
Explorer II
Explorer II
May not effect RVers but DIY be careful with solar panel system installation. Amazon has experienced rooftop solar panel fires and has powered down their panels.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/amazon-temporarily-shuts-down-solar-rooftops-facilities-fires

I happen to love solar.
20 REPLIES 20

dedmiston
Moderator
Moderator
Again. Welcome to the forum. Have a good time.

2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • <\br >Toys:

  • 18 Can Am Maverick x3
  • 05 Yamaha WR450
  • 07 Honda CRF250X
  • 05 Honda CRF230
  • 06 Honda CRF230

gklott
Explorer
Explorer
There’s no stretch at all, unless you now divert from your own declaration “Your insurance is tightly governed by the contract that you have with your carrier (the policy). They have to abide by this contract and they aren't permitted to make up other requirements outside the four corners of the page.”

Your “reasonable person” definition is not in “the four corners of the page”. There is the clear, specific contract exclusion: “you must, without limitation:
a. exercise due diligence to properly maintain the vehicle;
b. comply with all federal safety standards and provisions; and
c. follow all customary and manufacturer-recommended maintenance guidelines.”

Does your reasonable person also know “ALL federal safety standards and provisions” as the contract requires?

Your claim that RV owners are those “reasonable people were assumed to be fools” is quite a defamation of Good Sam members. As a 30+ year RV owner and Good Sam member, I find this forum to be a wealth of excellent information from reasonable people.

Back to the topic, there is a way to prevent solar panel system fires. You exercise due diligence before altering the life and safety components of your RV. Starting a topic in this forum “solar panel system fires” and learning that there is a national life safety standard that prescribes a method to prevent the specific concern is one form of due diligence. You then follow that consensus, best engineering practice as you properly maintain your vehicle.

No need to bump this topic further.

73/gus

dedmiston
Moderator
Moderator
When I worked in claims, "reasonable" people were assumed to be fools. We never interpreted "reasonable" to mean a specific code etc., because most people weren't conversant in anything beyond adding air to their tires and gas to their tank (if that). "Reasonable" meant driving on the right side of the roadway.

I think your interpretation is a stretch. There's no interpretation that would mean that a "reasonable person" would know what "NFPA 1192" is. Ever.

2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • <\br >Toys:

  • 18 Can Am Maverick x3
  • 05 Yamaha WR450
  • 07 Honda CRF250X
  • 05 Honda CRF230
  • 06 Honda CRF230

gklott
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for the info on the bumping custom.

On the insurance, the Progressive Texas Travel Trailer Policy is pretty clear. Under Exclusions, “17. that occurs because a covered vehicle has not been properly maintained and kept in reasonable condition.”
The “reasonable condition” definition, is: “ Reasonable condition” means fit to withstand the foreseeable and expected conditions of weather, wind, precipitation, and the rigors of normal and foreseeable use, including travel on public roads. For a vehicle to be considered in reasonable condition, you must, without limitation:
a. exercise due diligence to properly maintain the vehicle;
b. comply with all federal safety standards and provisions; and
c. follow all customary and manufacturer-recommended maintenance guidelines.”

If you choose to maintain your RV in such a manner that it is no longer in compliance with NFPA 1192, such as not complying with propane or electrical safety standards, are you exercising due diligence? Note the “You must without limitation”. Example might include,
- using a fuse larger than the manufacturer’s recommendation,
- removing or disabling smoke, CO, and propane detectors,
- modifying your braking system’s electrical connections to effectively disable the break away switch,
- using water plumbing parts on the propane system,
- removing the GFCI protection on certain outlets.

Is this what you are looking for?

73/gus

dedmiston
Moderator
Moderator
gklott wrote:
Most RV insurance companies require owners to comply with standards and industry best practice on modifications that may effect safety.


Hello Gklott - Welcome to the forum. I see that this is your first post. I need to point out to you that we discourage adding posts to threads that are more than a few weeks old. We call this "bumping" and it's kind of an unnatural way to resume the conversation after the responses have died down. It's better to start a new thread.

It's not a rule, but kind of a custom. No big deal though. Anyway, welcome to the forum.

As far as your statement about insurance companies requiring compliance, I'll push back on that and say that I've never seen that in a policy before. Your insurance is tightly governed by the contract that you have with your carrier (the policy). They have to abide by this contract and they aren't permitted to make up other requirements outside the four corners of the page. If you have different verbiage in your policy though, by all means share it with us.

Again, welcome aboard. We'll see you around.

2014 RAM 3500 Diesel 4x4 Dually long bed. B&W RVK3600 hitch • 2015 Crossroads Elevation Homestead Toy Hauler ("The Taj Mahauler") • <\br >Toys:

  • 18 Can Am Maverick x3
  • 05 Yamaha WR450
  • 07 Honda CRF250X
  • 05 Honda CRF230
  • 06 Honda CRF230

gklott
Explorer
Explorer
Specifically, I see many RVs that add three or more panels.

RVIA and QAI (Canada) specify following the National Electric Code (NEC - NFPA 70) in all RVs. Most RV insurance companies require owners to comply with standards and industry best practice on modifications that may effect safety.

The 2017 National Electric Code (and 2020,2023 editions) have this requirement: "§690.41.(B). Ground-fault protection. PV DC circuits that exceed 30V or 8 amperes shall be provided with dc ground fault detection meeting the requirements of 690.41(B)(1) and (B)(2) to reduce fire hazards.
Solidly grounded PV source circuits with not more than two modules in parallel and not on or in buildings shall be permitted without ground fault protection."

My Escape Trailer Industries optional OEM configuration has two modules in parallel (GoPower BF-190M). The charge controller (GoPower or Victron) provides grounding between the - PV terminal, - battery, and chassis. This meets the RVIA and QAI requirements.

I placed a 30A MaxiFuse and a disconnect switch before the charge controller. I have a 60A MaxiFuse between the + solar charger and the + main bus.

73/gus

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
NamMedevac 70 wrote:
2oldman wrote:
I've had panel failures from the thin connnecting strips under the glass. They turn brown then burn out. Gets hot up there, which is why I would never put a flexible panel directly on my roof.


That is very useful info for new RVers to know. Thanks


X 2, I’ll now be checking my 8 Rv panels…

3 tons, with few opinions…

NamMedevac_70
Explorer II
Explorer II
2oldman wrote:
I've had panel failures from the thin connnecting strips under the glass. They turn brown then burn out. Gets hot up there, which is why I would never put a flexible panel directly on my roof.


That is very useful info for new RVers to know. Thanks

Mike134
Explorer
Explorer
Folks it's not apples to apples here.

Those commercial installations have panels wired in series so that the output is 1000volts, the 4 panels on your RV 70volts on a bright sunny day?
2019 F150 4X4 1903 payload
2018 Adventurer 21RBS 7700 GVWR.

2oldman
Explorer II
Explorer II
I've had panel failures from the thin connnecting strips under the glass. They turn brown then burn out. Gets hot up there, which is why I would never put a flexible panel directly on my roof.
"If I'm wearing long pants, I'm too far north" - 2oldman

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
Tom_M wrote:
NamMedevac 70 wrote:
So what. May be important news for first time RV solar panel users including DIY dudes. Over the years I have read several tragic stories of RV fires due to DIY electrical modifications. Some bright folks have to tinker with everything till they burn the house down. Cheers to those with common sense
Unless I missed it, there was nothing said about what failed.
Last I read fire was due to some optimizers that connected the strings of panels before going to the inverter. RVs don't use this system or equipment. Most residential also does not use this equipment.

NamMedevac_70
Explorer II
Explorer II
Not everyone has your high IQ electrical skills bubba joe. I get that warm fuzzy feeling thinking about solar panels. Cheers

wanderingaimles
Explorer
Explorer
But,,, but,,,,,
They got free 2 day shipping.

Gdetrailer
Explorer III
Explorer III
PButler96 wrote:
NamMedevac 70 wrote:
Over the years I have read several tragic stories of RV fires due to DIY electrical modifications. Some bright folks have to tinker with everything till they burn the house down. Cheers to those with common sense


So what? Over the years I have read several tragic stories of house fires where one would have to assume most of the houses were wired by electrical professionals. I know this, I trust my own electrical skills more than I trust some unknown RV tech at an RV dealer who may be the best ever, or might have been picking his nose while salting fries at BK last week.


Making a lot of "assumptions"?

A lot can happen well after a "professional electrician" leaves the finished job..

Things like stapled extension cords, undersized extension cords for the load.. It is common for folks to grab a 6ft or longer 18 ga extension cord and plug a 1500W load into it..

As far as the solar panel fires goes, well, it is rare that anyone FUSES the panels and with large scale solar they will be wiring the panels in a much higher DC voltage than 12V.. High voltage DC is a hole nuther animal to tame once it starts arcing.. Which is why it is often preferred for arc welding purposes over AC arc welding..

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