Surge protection INSIDE the camper?

[okwaterdog]

I recently had a problem that cost me my converter, microwave, television, vcr and the sound system. I am lucky the refrigerator and a/c's weren't damaged. Yes I do have a surge protector at the outlet, but the problem was caused by a bad plug on the rv's power cord.

Before I replace everything, wanted to see if there is any type of surge protector that can go between the outlet and the item (for example the microwave)....?? It would have to be small, would fit into the 110 and then the microwave would plug into it.

I'd rather not have this happen again.

[CA_Traveler]

Bobbo wrote:
FWIW, I got back today from a 3 day campout about 90 miles from home. During the campout, on Friday night/Saturday morning, a bolt of lightning actually STRUCK A CLASS A rig in the campground. There is a hole through his roof and floor, and a chunk of concrete about the size of a soccer ball is blown out of the parking pad. Needless to say, his electronics (and almost all other electrical equipment) is toast. He was in there at the time, but no one was hurt.

The remainder of the campground suffered a SEVERE brownout at the time, but my EMS shut off power to my RV. I don't know if anyone else sustained any damage, no one said anything, but I definitely didn't.

They dodged a close bullet and so did you. Good job!

[neschultz]

westom wrote:

pianotuna wrote:
What can an RV'er purchase to protect against a nearby or direct lightning strike?

The concept was taught to all in elementary school. Lightning (and similar transients) seek earth ground.

Nothing will block that hunt. The solution was always as simple as Franklin demonstrated - it must be connected to earth.

For example, view a household TV cable or satellite dish wire. It must have a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) hardwire connection to earth ground. That is best protection. A transient that hunts for earth need not enter a structure to find earth (destructively).

AC electric cannot connect direct to earth. So a protector must do what that hardwire does better. A protector at the pole make a low impedance earth ground connection. Then a transient is not inside hunting for earth destructively via camper appliances.

It was always that simple. But is too complicated for at least one who entertains his emotions due to insufficient reading abilities. If he knew this stuff, then he knew no protector does protection. He keeps posting as if the protector is all protection. He does not understand. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Unfortunately that is not what soundbytes and advertising teaches. So it is too scientific.

A lower impedance (ie shorter) connection to earth means less surge will find a path to earth via appliances. A higher impedance (greater separation between appliance and protector) does same. That means robust protection already inside appliances is not overwhelmed.

Disconnecting does little since these destructive transients (not just lightning) occur at almost any time. Nothing can disconnect fast enough since transients are microsecond events, occur without warning, and blow through anything that might try to block it (ie open switch, transformer).

I think all of us have been insulted several times in this post (I leaned about insulting in elementary school). And any useful answer in there could have just been said by writing one word - “nothing”.

[Bobbo]

FWIW, I got back today from a 3 day campout about 90 miles from home. During the campout, on Friday night/Saturday morning, a bolt of lightning actually STRUCK A CLASS A rig in the campground. There is a hole through his roof and floor, and a chunk of concrete about the size of a soccer ball is blown out of the parking pad. Needless to say, his electronics (and almost all other electrical equipment) is toast. He was in there at the time, but no one was hurt.

The remainder of the campground suffered a SEVERE brownout at the time, but my EMS shut off power to my RV. I don't know if anyone else sustained any damage, no one said anything, but I definitely didn't.

[westom]

pianotuna wrote:
What can an RV'er purchase to protect against a nearby or direct lightning strike?

The concept was taught to all in elementary school. Lightning (and similar transients) seek earth ground.

Nothing will block that hunt. The solution was always as simple as Franklin demonstrated - it must be connected to earth.

For example, view a household TV cable or satellite dish wire. It must have a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) hardwire connection to earth ground. That is best protection. A transient that hunts for earth need not enter a structure to find earth (destructively).

AC electric cannot connect direct to earth. So a protector must do what that hardwire does better. A protector at the pole make a low impedance earth ground connection. Then a transient is not inside hunting for earth destructively via camper appliances.

It was always that simple. But is too complicated for at least one who entertains his emotions due to insufficient reading abilities. If he knew this stuff, then he knew no protector does protection. He keeps posting as if the protector is all protection. He does not understand. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Unfortunately that is not what soundbytes and advertising teaches. So it is too scientific.

A lower impedance (ie shorter) connection to earth means less surge will find a path to earth via appliances. A higher impedance (greater separation between appliance and protector) does same. That means robust protection already inside appliances is not overwhelmed.

Disconnecting does little since these destructive transients (not just lightning) occur at almost any time. Nothing can disconnect fast enough since transients are microsecond events, occur without warning, and blow through anything that might try to block it (ie open switch, transformer).

[SoundGuy]

Cydog15 wrote:
Don't let these scientists tell you soap won't wash your ass.

I remember reading one of westom's WAY over complicated diatribes maybe a year ago about surge protection and why it wouldn't do for we simpletons what everyone thinks it will do ... sure wish I'd been able to come up with this response at the time as it sure sums it up pretty well! 😛

For anyone else reading this discussion, if you don't already have one get yourself an EMS w/surge protection (or voltage regulator w/surge protection if that's you're preference) and don't let these "anomaly" posts from the "scientists" dissuade you. Nothing is perfect in this world and no device is absolutely going to protect you 100% from everything but you're still far better off with one of these devices than without. 😉

[Cydog15]

pianotuna wrote:
Cydog15,

I know a smidgen. But I'm always trying to learn more. I'm easily gulled because I do expect others to be open, honest, and sharing.

There are always those wanting to test the average man and ridicule him. There are those that know how to talk on the user level but instead weed out for the more favorable to them conversation on their level, if they can generate it. There are some that will just drink a beer with you and agree that not everybody is trying to screw us even if the're is more involved discussion available that is not necessary. It's peering.

[pianotuna]

Cydog15,

I know a smidgen. But I'm always trying to learn more. I'm easily gulled because I do expect others to be open, honest, and sharing.

[Cydog15]

pianotuna wrote:
westom

I asked this before in other words but you may not have seen it.

What can an RV'er purchase to protect against a nearby or direct lightning strike?

Is unplug the best answer?

I thought you knew everything tuna 😉 He's blowing smoke and not doing justice for those that will get anomalies from older campgrounds and generators which are the majority of the problems, not lightning strikes. I got a direct hit to the transformer at a park twice. Once in Montana and once in Nebraska. Both times after the storm I was that grinning SOB around the camp fire while others where calling mobile techs to come fix stuff. I don't disagree a direct hit will blow past a PI unit but to say they don't work is just BS, they do. Also had open ground or neutral once and stayed protected. Don't let these scientists tell you soap won't wash your ass.

[pianotuna]

westom

I asked this before in other words but you may not have seen it.

What can an RV'er purchase to protect against a nearby or direct lightning strike?

Is unplug the best answer?

[westom]

Bobbo wrote:
Does your sentence above mean that the EMS needs to be directly earth grounded at the pole?

Of so many anomalies, this anomaly must make a low impedance connection to earth. Impedance is defined mostly by wire length (not wire thickness). To be effective, distance to earth ground must be as short as possible. If that protector is inside a camper, then a better (low impedance) path to earth might be via camper electronics.

Other anomalies are typically averted by something that can reply in milliseconds. This anomaly requires nanoseconds response. Nanoseconds says why that connection to earth must be so short (and other electrical requirements).

For same reasons, a plug-in protector also does not claim to protect from this anomaly. It may be promoted subjectively to do so. But where honestly must always exists (ie specifications), it does not claim such protection.

This anomaly is less frequent than other campground anomalies. So many protectors do not (need not) address it.

[Almot]

Mr Wiz, that's the beauty of Sola - automatic. It maintains safe voltage with input ranging from 90 to 140.

What I can't figure out is what kind of surge/spike suppressor should be placed upstream of it. It does need surge/spike protector on the input, but doesn't need EMS like Surge Guard, Progressive Industries or Hughes because they cut-off at 102V and 132V (those are Surge Guard numbers, I don't see any numbers for PI or a similar Hughes device).

Though, PI and SG have portable surge-only protectors, without voltage protection.

Hughes portable Wireless Watchdog allows to set voltage limits to get "notified". Though, via Bluetooth app, which I'm not thrilled about since this would require keeping smartphone On at all times - otherwise it defeats the purpose. It doesn't say that it actually disconnects at those V values - a bit weird.

[pianotuna]

Hi MrWizard,

The Sola does automatically switch boost levels.

From the factory the levels are set at:

When voltage input is 110 it does 10%

When voltage input is 100 it does 20%

When voltage input is 90 it does 30%

What that means in real life is that if input voltage is 108 the output will be boosted to about 118. If input voltage is 101 then output voltages would be about 111 volts.

If input drops to 98 then output becomes in theory 117.

The lowest input voltage I've measured is 97. It boosted the voltage to a safe level for running the roof air. I did document that on the boards but I can't find it.

I'm told there is a "pot" that can be turned to change the set points. I'd love to move the initial boost point up to 113 volts. Unfortunately that is beyond my knowledge base.

I'm using it at the moment on a weak 30 amp shore power supply. Output voltage is 115.8 volts.

MrWizard wrote:
i'm sure the Sola he has is NOT automatic

it can do boost or buck

but it has taps and you manually set it for the amount of boost or buck

he has detailed this numerous times

he has it on boost (i forget the amount) if line voltage suddenly went up
so would the voltage to the RV, thus an EMS is needed
the same if the voltage went too low the Sola would continue with the same amount of boost, and the RV voltage would be TOO LOW

[pianotuna]

Almot wrote:
Don, is your custom-made surge protector a spike protector only?

Ask Mex for the details he created it for me.

[MrWizard]

i'm sure the Sola he has is NOT automatic

it can do boost or buck

but it has taps and you manually set it for the amount of boost or buck

he has detailed this numerous times

he has it on boost (i forget the amount) if line voltage suddenly went up
so would the voltage to the RV, thus an EMS is needed
the same if the voltage went too low the Sola would continue with the same amount of boost, and the RV voltage would be TOO LOW