Torque Pro Question - Trans Fluid Temp Calculation Methods

[BigMac]

Not sure if this is the proper place to ask this, but here goes. I'm new to the Torque Pro app. Just downloaded it to monitor performance of my 2004 6.8L Ford V-10 (2-vlv) installed on a 37? Forest River Georgetown. I will start using it on my next trip. I’m particularly interested to monitor Transmission Fluid Temp. In the Ford specific Custom PIDs available in the app there are two tranny temp PIDs with different calculation methods shown, Transmission Fluid Temp (Method 1)” and Transmission Fluid Temp (Method 2)”. Can anyone please explain the differences between them and if one is more appropriate than the other for my application. My normal on the road travel weight for the RV is slightly over 20,000 pounds plus pulling a 3300 lb. toad, and I’m trying to make sure I have real time transmission fluid temp data during long or steep climbs. Thanks.

[RLS7201]

bcbigfoot wrote:

RLS7201 wrote:

bcbigfoot wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Make up a MECHANICAL CAPILLARY TUBE GAUGE. Interrupt the outgoing fluid from the transmission on it's way to the cooler. Use a threaded brass block with a "T" suitable for the gauge bulb. Double flared fittings on the tyranny line. Wrap the line from the transmission with fiberglass mat just like they use on body repairs. Four wraps. Then fiberglass resin.

This reads fluid temp as the transmission sees it. No other manner of reading transmission fluid temperature is valid.

Now for a question:

I use MoPar synthetic fluid in the toad because I have to. If Mercon or Dexron synthetic fluid is available, does it have a good enough user reputation to offer high temperature lubricity and resistance to breakdown? The stuff isn't cheap. MoPar claims life of transmission usability. Har Har. I have changed it twice in 90,000 miles.

But the longest lasting fluid operates at less than 100F. Use that as a sense of perspective. Engine oil on the other hand has both minimum and maximum limits because of combustion contamination boil-off and thermal clearances. I want to fit a tranny cooler to the toad. And a big pusher fan in front of the AC condenser.

My bus uses 50 weight oil in the Fuller assembles. I chose Lubrication Engineers because of extended lifespan.

Sorry Mex but that is completely wrong, Getting your temp. from the location you mention only tells you torque converter temp., not trans. temp or what the transmission temps is, clutches, seals, bearings, even the oil only sees those temps. momentarily until it hits the cooler them cools down and re-enters the trans pan. It is possible to have 300f oil temps coming from that location and the rest of the trans. is -20f, think stuck in a snow bank.

Whats important is to know the oil temp the trans. is picking up from the pan, you want to know your coolers are doing there job and getting the oil temps down so they aren't hurting the trans.. Oil coming out of the trans. going to the coolers is going to have wild swings in temp. , unusable info for real world. What you want is usable numbers, so you can compare with other people and compare your temps in the future for anomalies and long term trends.

Wrong! Transmission fluid life is based on the maximum temperature the fluid reaches. And that would be exactly as stated by Mex.

Richard

Really I guess you know something that hundreds of equipment, truck automotive, manufactures don't know. Since they put their temp. sensors in the pan or trans. case. As a heavy equipment mechanic I was trained that torque converter fluid exit temps. were pretty much useless in knowing unless looking for specific torque converter issues. I'm so disappointed in being wrong.

Looks like we come from two different schools of thought.
I was trained by the petroleum industry. You would think the manufactures of transmission fluid would know what conditions dedicate useful fluid life.

Here's GM take on the subject.

Here is a quote from the Orange ($8.95) GM manual:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURED AT CONVERTER OUTLET TO COOLER.

300F is the maximum temperature. (Workhorse says 350F). This is the normal place to install a temperature gauge or signal. The temperature in this location will vary significantly with each vehicle start-up or hill. If the temperature reaches 300F (350F), reduce throttle. To lower the transmission temperature with the transmission in NEUTRAL, run the engine at 1,200 RPM for 2-3 minutes to cool the oil. Do not allow the converter outlet temperature to exceed 300F (350F).
Keep a close check to prevent the engine cooling system from overheating.

300F would be typical of rocking the vehicle in mud, snow, or sand, or a transmission in stall (full throttle, no vehicle movement). When the transmission is in stall, the transmission will develop heat at a rate of one degree per second of stall.

OIL TEMPERATURES MEASURED IN THE SUMP

150F -- Minimum operating temperature for continuous operation. It is possible in low ambient temperature to overcool the transmission with oil to air-type coolers; it is hard to overcool if used in conjunction with oil to water coolers installed in most standard automotive radiators.

190F-200F -- Maximum oil level checking temperature. Beyond this, readings are not reliable because of expansion.

285F -- Maximum sump/oil pan temperatures for short duration such as a long hill climb.

300F -- Metal parts inside the transmission begin to warp and distort in varying degrees, seals melt rapidly, and transmission fluid life is extremely short due to oxidation and distress.

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID OXIDATION Automatic transmission fluid
can provide up to 100,000 miles of service before oxidation occurs under normal operating temperatures of about 170F. Above normal operating temperatures, the oxidation rate doubles (useful life of the fluid is cut in half) with each 20 degree increase in temperature. The approximate life expectancy at various temperatures is a follows:
Degrees F Miles
175 100,000
195 50,000
212 25,000
235 12,000
255 6,000
275 3,000
295 1,500
315 750
335 325
375 80
390 40
415 Less than 30 minutes


Richard

[bcbigfoot]

RLS7201 wrote:

bcbigfoot wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Make up a MECHANICAL CAPILLARY TUBE GAUGE. Interrupt the outgoing fluid from the transmission on it's way to the cooler. Use a threaded brass block with a "T" suitable for the gauge bulb. Double flared fittings on the tyranny line. Wrap the line from the transmission with fiberglass mat just like they use on body repairs. Four wraps. Then fiberglass resin.

This reads fluid temp as the transmission sees it. No other manner of reading transmission fluid temperature is valid.

Now for a question:

I use MoPar synthetic fluid in the toad because I have to. If Mercon or Dexron synthetic fluid is available, does it have a good enough user reputation to offer high temperature lubricity and resistance to breakdown? The stuff isn't cheap. MoPar claims life of transmission usability. Har Har. I have changed it twice in 90,000 miles.

But the longest lasting fluid operates at less than 100F. Use that as a sense of perspective. Engine oil on the other hand has both minimum and maximum limits because of combustion contamination boil-off and thermal clearances. I want to fit a tranny cooler to the toad. And a big pusher fan in front of the AC condenser.

My bus uses 50 weight oil in the Fuller assembles. I chose Lubrication Engineers because of extended lifespan.

Sorry Mex but that is completely wrong, Getting your temp. from the location you mention only tells you torque converter temp., not trans. temp or what the transmission temps is, clutches, seals, bearings, even the oil only sees those temps. momentarily until it hits the cooler them cools down and re-enters the trans pan. It is possible to have 300f oil temps coming from that location and the rest of the trans. is -20f, think stuck in a snow bank.

Whats important is to know the oil temp the trans. is picking up from the pan, you want to know your coolers are doing there job and getting the oil temps down so they aren't hurting the trans.. Oil coming out of the trans. going to the coolers is going to have wild swings in temp. , unusable info for real world. What you want is usable numbers, so you can compare with other people and compare your temps in the future for anomalies and long term trends.

Wrong! Transmission fluid life is based on the maximum temperature the fluid reaches. And that would be exactly as stated by Mex.

Richard

Really I guess you know something that hundreds of equipment, truck automotive, manufactures don't know. Since they put their temp. sensors in the pan or trans. case. As a heavy equipment mechanic I was trained that torque converter fluid exit temps. were pretty much useless in knowing unless looking for specific torque converter issues. I'm so disappointed in being wrong.

[RLS7201]

bcbigfoot wrote:

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Make up a MECHANICAL CAPILLARY TUBE GAUGE. Interrupt the outgoing fluid from the transmission on it's way to the cooler. Use a threaded brass block with a "T" suitable for the gauge bulb. Double flared fittings on the tyranny line. Wrap the line from the transmission with fiberglass mat just like they use on body repairs. Four wraps. Then fiberglass resin.

This reads fluid temp as the transmission sees it. No other manner of reading transmission fluid temperature is valid.

Now for a question:

I use MoPar synthetic fluid in the toad because I have to. If Mercon or Dexron synthetic fluid is available, does it have a good enough user reputation to offer high temperature lubricity and resistance to breakdown? The stuff isn't cheap. MoPar claims life of transmission usability. Har Har. I have changed it twice in 90,000 miles.

But the longest lasting fluid operates at less than 100F. Use that as a sense of perspective. Engine oil on the other hand has both minimum and maximum limits because of combustion contamination boil-off and thermal clearances. I want to fit a tranny cooler to the toad. And a big pusher fan in front of the AC condenser.

My bus uses 50 weight oil in the Fuller assembles. I chose Lubrication Engineers because of extended lifespan.

Sorry Mex but that is completely wrong, Getting your temp. from the location you mention only tells you torque converter temp., not trans. temp or what the transmission temps is, clutches, seals, bearings, even the oil only sees those temps. momentarily until it hits the cooler them cools down and re-enters the trans pan. It is possible to have 300f oil temps coming from that location and the rest of the trans. is -20f, think stuck in a snow bank.

Whats important is to know the oil temp the trans. is picking up from the pan, you want to know your coolers are doing there job and getting the oil temps down so they aren't hurting the trans.. Oil coming out of the trans. going to the coolers is going to have wild swings in temp. , unusable info for real world. What you want is usable numbers, so you can compare with other people and compare your temps in the future for anomalies and long term trends.

Wrong! Transmission fluid life is based on the maximum temperature the fluid reaches. And that would be exactly as stated by Mex.

Richard

[bcbigfoot]

MEXICOWANDERER wrote:
Make up a MECHANICAL CAPILLARY TUBE GAUGE. Interrupt the outgoing fluid from the transmission on it's way to the cooler. Use a threaded brass block with a "T" suitable for the gauge bulb. Double flared fittings on the tyranny line. Wrap the line from the transmission with fiberglass mat just like they use on body repairs. Four wraps. Then fiberglass resin.

This reads fluid temp as the transmission sees it. No other manner of reading transmission fluid temperature is valid.

Now for a question:

I use MoPar synthetic fluid in the toad because I have to. If Mercon or Dexron synthetic fluid is available, does it have a good enough user reputation to offer high temperature lubricity and resistance to breakdown? The stuff isn't cheap. MoPar claims life of transmission usability. Har Har. I have changed it twice in 90,000 miles.

But the longest lasting fluid operates at less than 100F. Use that as a sense of perspective. Engine oil on the other hand has both minimum and maximum limits because of combustion contamination boil-off and thermal clearances. I want to fit a tranny cooler to the toad. And a big pusher fan in front of the AC condenser.

My bus uses 50 weight oil in the Fuller assembles. I chose Lubrication Engineers because of extended lifespan.

Sorry Mex but that is completely wrong, Getting your temp. from the location you mention only tells you torque converter temp., not trans. temp or what the transmission temps is, clutches, seals, bearings, even the oil only sees those temps. momentarily until it hits the cooler them cools down and re-enters the trans pan. It is possible to have 300f oil temps coming from that location and the rest of the trans. is -20f, think stuck in a snow bank.

Whats important is to know the oil temp the trans. is picking up from the pan, you want to know your coolers are doing there job and getting the oil temps down so they aren't hurting the trans.. Oil coming out of the trans. going to the coolers is going to have wild swings in temp. , unusable info for real world. What you want is usable numbers, so you can compare with other people and compare your temps in the future for anomalies and long term trends.

[jolooote]

MEXICOWONDERER ... You've GOT to be kidding. LOL

[TUCQUALA]

To The LeRoys:

I am using Torque Pro on a V10 Excursion, don't know which PID I am using, and can't find it on the app.

BUT, just make 2 new gauges, and use both PID's. I am pretty sure one will not show anything on the gauge, but if they both work, you can compare and keep the one you feel is accurate. FYI, my trans temps run 140-160 not towing, and usually will stay around 160-190 when towing and have hit 215 on long hills and 90 plus degrees temps.

Hope this helps.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Make up a MECHANICAL CAPILLARY TUBE GAUGE. Interrupt the outgoing fluid from the transmission on it's way to the cooler. Use a threaded brass block with a "T" suitable for the gauge bulb. Double flared fittings on the tyranny line. Wrap the line from the transmission with fiberglass mat just like they use on body repairs. Four wraps. Then fiberglass resin.

This reads fluid temp as the transmission sees it. No other manner of reading transmission fluid temperature is valid.

Now for a question:

I use MoPar synthetic fluid in the toad because I have to. If Mercon or Dexron synthetic fluid is available, does it have a good enough user reputation to offer high temperature lubricity and resistance to breakdown? The stuff isn't cheap. MoPar claims life of transmission usability. Har Har. I have changed it twice in 90,000 miles.

But the longest lasting fluid operates at less than 100F. Use that as a sense of perspective. Engine oil on the other hand has both minimum and maximum limits because of combustion contamination boil-off and thermal clearances. I want to fit a tranny cooler to the toad. And a big pusher fan in front of the AC condenser.

My bus uses 50 weight oil in the Fuller assembles. I chose Lubrication Engineers because of extended lifespan.

[RLS7201]

The fluid leaving the torque converter goes straight to the transmission cooler. That's the hottest point. Check the temperature at the fitting where the fluid leaves the transmission. Usually the forward fitting.

Richard

[jolooote]

Which tranny do u have? The old, awful 4 speed or the newer, very nice, 5 speed?
Monitor in both modes 2 C if they read different. Use each as a baseline. Whichever u decide to use, I'd not let the temp ever increase more than 30 degrees.
I had a 2001 Georgetown 30' Class'A' Ford F53, 305 HP and monitored with my ScanGauge. It's tranny temp cruised at about 190 degrees. If a long hard pull ever got it hotter than 210 I always pulled over to let it cool. I than had a 2006 National 34' Class'A' Ford F53, 362 HP with the nice 5 speed. Also monitored with the same Scangauge. It always cruised at 165 degrees and never got hotter than 190.

[The_LeRoys]

I have this same question. Were you able to obtain which temperature is the correct one?

[NinerBikes]

Measure both on your Torque Pro application. Also measure your coolant temperature off the head. All of these are important. You should find out what model transmission you have also... is it a C6, or something different? Take it to a transmission shop and have your ATF changed, and ask them what temp the max operating fluid should be kept at.

You can also set alarms on your Torque Pro App for maximum temperatures, and then the gauge starts blinking, although I'd prefer an audible sound instead for a gauge whose temp is running too hot.

If it sounded off, look down and see which gauge is blinking.

[BigMac]

My problem is that I don't have a way right now to read transmission fluid temp at all, but this TorquePro app will allow me to. It's just that I have to chose the correct Custom PID and I'm not sure which it is. Once done, I can read this output, plus many other engine performance parameters in the form of gauges on my android phone mounted on the dashboard as an auxiliary instrument panel in addition to the standard Ford gauges.

[Golden_HVAC]

Hi,

It is a long question to ask "What should my maximum fluid temp be?"

I read a poster on a wall in a transmission shop. IT basically stated that 300F trans fluid was good for something like 100 miles, or maybe it said 10 miles. 275 for 100 miles, and 250 for something like 5,000 miles between changes. 230F fluid is good for a somewhat normal 15,000 mile service life.

I prefer to keep my transmission fluid below 210F most of the time, with short duration of 230F while climbing a mountain. If it gets close to 230F, I would slow down, rather than overheat the transmission.

My 97 Ford F-53 chassis and 30' motorhome never went over about 200 on level ground, and up to about 225 F on a long mountain grade at 45 MPH in 2 gear (of 4). I have a 460" engine, old school compared to your V10 that can rev up much higher with much smaller pistons and shorter stroke that can rev up to 4,000 - 4,500 with ease.

I also tow a 4,000 pound car. My 30' RV is only about 16,500 pounds, so I am a bit lighter than yours. However my 460" engine is only rated at 225 HP at 3,600 RPM, much less than the 362 HP that your engine is rated at.

If your transmission is running over 210F on level ground, then I suggest a larger transmission cooler. However you do want (or need) to keep the transmission fluid over about 180F - even in winter. Moisture in the transmission fluid is driven out by running at 200F - it will boil all that water away. Keeping the fluid below 150F - such as short runs to work in the winter time, and moisture will not boil away, and can be bad.

Fred.