Which is the Better Battery Bank?

[BFL13]

Two of these
http://www.wegosolar.com/products.php?product=Surrette-S%252d550-Deep-Cycle-Wet-Lead-Acid-Solar-6V-B...

Or four of these

http://www.wegosolar.com/products.php?product=T%252d105-Trojan-Deep-Cycle-6V-Flooded-Wet-Lead-Acid-B...

For about the same AH? The prices will obviously be all over the map where you live, so pretend it comes to about the same in $/AH.

[pnichols]

Don .... that Firefly graph is impressive indeed: Battery up to full capacity after 33 partial recharges, with 31 of the 33 being REALLY low partial recharges.

I hope our pricey Fullriver Group 31 Deep Cycle AGMs are capable of somewhere near the same performance .... since if we were to drycamp for many days at a time we would be treating them about the same.

[pianotuna]

A graph about recovery from abuse charging.



If true, it certainly looks impressive.

[BFL13]

Trojan hired some US testing outfit, and used the results to trash Rolls in a couple of these white papers.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/literature/#whitepaper

I guess T is feeling some heat from R. Not clear to me if LY's point about testing methods comes out here, but IMO you would want to know more about that in this case.

[landyacht318]

Sandia labs reports are certainly hard to disqualify. Thanks for the working link Don.

Existing technology combined with a carbon twist, if proved effective in actual use, which could be implemented and not disturb the golden rulers bottom line too much, it is a game changer.

If 100% Lead acid recharges only had to happen every 30 or more cycles and 100% capacity could be restored with an elongated recharge session, then it is certainly a worthy pursuit, as the recycling infrastructure is already present.

But could the golden rulers still profit? Is that not always the limiting factor despite best intentions?

[EsoxLucius]

The Firefly is AGM.

http://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced-energy-storage-systems/firefly-energys-oasis-group-31/

[pnichols]

Don ....

Thanks much for a working link to the Sandia National Laboratories report. Those guys I trust to absolutely know what they're doing and to report results accordingly.

That got me thinking .... could an AGM battery be built with it's one plate being Pb + carbon instead of only Pb? If so, would this then be a "dry battery" (like AGM) - but with the added advantages of Pb & carbon for it's negative active material (like Firefly)?

Maybe the best of both lead-acid worlds (...or is Firefly already a dry battery?).

[MEXICOWANDERER]

BFL13 Even at my "autumn of my years" age I would go with whatever product guarantees the least hassle. I am too old and too remote to play pound-a-peg with batteries. With excellent batteries they tend to maintain equal cell density far longer than cheaper grade. Like comparing a Wiha screwdriver to a Craftsman the Wiha will tend to not destroy itself stripping the phillips cross. Old and cross I don't need to learn sanscrit behavior management with new technologies full of quirks and pitfalls. Bolt the cables on and have it work trouble-free and have inherent forgiveness in case I screw up...
But That's Me 🙂

[pianotuna]

Hi landy,

Here is the corrected first link:

http://www.sandia.gov/ess/docs/pr_conferences/2012/papers/Thursday/Session2/03_Enos_PbCVRLABatteryCR...

landyacht318 wrote:
First linky no work for me
Second linky good read, but 8 years old.

[landyacht318]

First linky no work for me
Second linky good read, but 8 years old.

[mvas]

Sandia National Labs ...

"Advanced VLRA" type of Blended Carbon+Lead batteries vs the "control" battery ...

Blended-Carbon-Lead

Here is the UltraBattery (Half Lead + Half Carbon Negative Plate) ...

UltraBattery

[MEXICOWANDERER]

"Ooo Ooo Toodie look at this B.S. site"

http://www.secbattery.com/product-category/gel-batteries/deep-cycle/?gclid=CNyR6rON6NACFUa1wAodQ3UFX...

Deep cycle GEL? Cyclable Toilet Paper? Great tasting Near Beer? After adding you can run your engine for hours, without oil? Pons & Fleishman? Bernie Madoff is your go-to investment man!

And people wonder why I am so sarcastic abut battery claims.

Sheesh!

[MEXICOWANDERER]

If taken down to 10% remaining do they perform a remarkably realistic impression of Mount Saint Helens, with PMS?

[brulaz]

landyacht318 wrote:
I know of another firefly AGM with leaky caps, This one in an RV. The owner got in touch with firefly distributor who mailed them new caps.

If they can indeed rest at 50% for 6 months and be restored to 100% of original capacity, they are a game changer.

That and the ability to go 1000 cycles down to 80% DOD.
Or 1800 cycles down to 65%, 600 down to 100%. That increases their "effective" Ah over regular AGMs and FLAs. And could make them cost-efficient.

Is all the lead replaced with carbon foam in these things?

[landyacht318]

I know of another firefly AGM with leaky caps, This one in an RV. The owner got in touch with firefly distributor who mailed them new caps.

If they can indeed rest at 50% for 6 months and be restored to 100% of original capacity, they are a game changer.