Which would you install?

[ib516]

I am going to be running 2 new batteries on our Jayco 17Z hybrid this year. We have a big MSW inverter, I think it's over 2000w, but we won't be using all of that obviously. I tried a single group 24 last year and used the inverter to run a small (700w) 5 cup coffee maker -- major fail. Basically fried that poor flooded G24 battery. So it's gone, I bought a coffee percolator for the stove top, and I'm starting fresh with the electrical side. I also had a small 1800w/2000w inverter generator. I sold it too, and have a 3300w Firman inverter generator now - it's still in the box in my basement.

So, to summarize before I get to my question...The RV is a 17'hybrid, we are 100% without hookups, have no solar, and generator hours are 90 min in the morning and 90 min in the evening before it has to be shut down and all quiet in the Canadian National Parks where we camp.
I would love to use solar, but the trees in the mountains would make it useless for where we camp, rarely do you have a site that gets direct sunlight.

OLD:
Single G24 flooded LA battery, 1800w/2000w inverter generator, factory 45 amp converter charger. It's an "IOTA" brand if memory serves.

NEW:
2 G31 wet cell batteries (105 Ah each), 3300w inverter generator, and....WHAT CONVERTER/CHARGER?

Here are my choices:
- IOTA 75A $300
- Powermax 100A $210
- Progressive Dynamics 70A with charge wizard $325

What do you think? Which one should I buy?

[ib516]

lawrosa wrote:
Dont forget that its a mute point if the wire from the converter to batterys is small...

Mine is 3 gauge and I get 40 amps or so from converter...

With just the 6 gauge I was lucky to get 25 amps

Thanks. I'll check into that.

[ib516]

Lwiddis wrote:
“What do you think?”

“So, to summarize,” your post is too long, random etc.

Funny, everyone else knew I was asking for technical advice about my RV, not thoughts on how I should organize my post to garner information.
But, since we are being critical of each other's posts, here's my opinion on your post. It's 100% useless and offered no information at all on the topic, but was successful at making you sound like a rude person.

I've been a member here since 2003, and I find background information is helpful to get good info when asking for advice.

Feel free to click elsewhere.

[ib516]

UPDATE:

I found 6v golf cart/RV/Solar batteries at Costco here in Canada. $139 each (plus a $10 eco-deposit) for 208 Ah units. I also received the IQ4 from Amazon.ca, it was $35 shipped. Not bad!

So, now as soon as all this snow is gone and the temperatures get above freezing, I will get the trailer out of storage and install my new goodies.

As a side note, I will not be parking the trailer in front of my house with the batteries on the tongue, they've become a popular item for thieves. They get $10 each at the local recycling yards. They usually are in a stolen pickup or SUV, and spend the night stealing. They use bolt cutters, cut the battery cables and off they go.

[ib516]

Sandia Man wrote:
The Iota 45 amp converter is just fine for 2 batteries but you must get the IQ4 module (less than $30 online) and plug it into the side jack to make it a smart charger.

This is what I have decided to do. $50 (for us Canadians) for the IQ4 and no swapping the converter/charger. On the batteries, I will look for a pair of 6Vs. That'll get me 225 Ah, or about 110 Ah usable.

I had already swapped to all LED lights.

I have bought a stove top coffee maker to replace the electric unit. That is likely the biggest improvement.

Thanks to all who posted helpful posts on topic.

[ib516]

GordonThree wrote:
Just curious, what park is this? The two NP campgrounds I've visited were 6a to 9a and 5p to 8p. A few NF parks have had hours of 6a to 9p.

Canadian NPs along the Icefields Parkway (between Banff and Jasper)

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Given potential delivery of adequate ampere hours (converter rating versus bank AH rating at 20 hrs) there is no excuse for any converter to not charge unsulfated batteries within a 240 minute period of operation to 100% capacity. Four hours. Either a "converter" cuts-the-mustard or it doesn't.

Converters for Power Pole Princess roles, need only maintain correct float voltage values despite the load on the batteries (constant battery voltage does not need more than one stage). Simply put this means correct float voltage maintained despite load.

Discharge battery to 50%

Eliminate all hotel burden

Can your converter recharge your battery to 100.00000% in four hours or less?

This is absolutely aside from the question of having too small a converter. Hotel burdens will skew the results so I made this question easier...

Whatever gizmo is used, if t cannot meet the above spec the amperage capacity is too small or it is not a true boondocking rated converter.

[wa8yxm]

For batteries: One pair GC-2 per 1,000 watts of inverter (Minimum recommendation) I have more than that for my 2KW inverter.

For converter.. With that much battery you really should upgrade the converter to battery line,k I have a Progressive Dynamics 9180 with charge wizard. Now I know how to use the Wizard and do so on rare occsions (the rest of the time it just sits there and operates in automatic mode)

A Progressive 9280 would be the equal to mine, Without dongle for most folks, WITH dongle for me.

I replaced the 9180 last Halloween it died after 12 years. Though the IOTA with IQ4, (I am told) is as good (they say).. I have yet to find a better converter in 12 years of searching, Well almost 13 years. OH Progressivew Dynamics products are MADE IN MICHIGAN USA. (Marshall, Insustrial and old US-27) Been there..... Where I got my replacement.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

Given enough time most any fraudulent device can recharge a battery.

When saturated voltage charging a battery, there is a MINIMUM time in minutes that the battery can be recharged. The argument is with chemistry not with slide rule prestidigitation or quaint manufacturer's references to Edward Teller, or Enrico Fermi, grade algorithms. I wish people would a) understand this b) deal with it.

Time limits are absolute. Given too little time, chemical reactions cannot take place no matter the color or design imprinted on the sorcerer's hat in the converter ad.

The ONLY way to rationally deal with a severe time constraint is similar to the following...

Relationship ampere hours consumed daily versus ability to recharge.

Batteries recover slowly from >80% to 100% state of charge.

Therefore, make available enough ampere hour capacity in the 50% to 80% state of charge region to allow maximum charge potential. If it takes one battery or twenty to do this, that's life.

So, for example given a two hour charge time window, the full 120 minutes is spent at or near maximum charging amperage limit. Configure the number of batteries needed to do this as closely as possible.

So the majority of time, total charging amp hours is limited to at or near 80% state of charge.

There has to be frequent "economy days" in which a bare minimum of ampere hours load is consumed and the charging does it's best to fill 80-100%

Constant less-than-100% recharging will sulfate batteries.

So the maximum safe constant voltage charging events are severely limited. 14.8 volts is what I recommend. 1000 amp hours of batteries at 50% state of charge? Do whatever it takes to achieve 14.8 volts instantly when the charger is enabled. If it takes 200 amperes to achieve "saturated voltage charging" so be it. Saturated voltage charging is far less harmful than severely chopping the state of charge when the potential exists to increase it. To wit -- an 80% SOC battery sulfates slower than a 70% state of charge battery.

Charging at 100 amperes for two hours beats charging at 40 amps when a hotel burden is more than 50 ampere hours daily.

This isn't a numbers game...it is a chemistry game

[DavidP]

BFL13 wrote:
"No reason to set to boost manually since it does it automatically. System will monitor low and high trigger values and initiate ideal charge values. Personally I don’t want to think about my chargers in my RV or Boat. Maybe you have reasons to want a manual boost option but I never needed that in any condition"

So we agree 🙂 The Iota's charge profile is suitable for some but not for some others.

Some battery specs call for 14.8v as the Absorption voltage (Vabs), and that stage can take hours "depending", so Iota's Vabs of 14.2 would not be suitable for those batteries.

Matching a preference for automatics for less fuss works well if the automatic charging profile matches the battery specs. If it does not, then you have to decide what to do if anything, and nobody else can make that choice.

The big thing is to know as much as possible about how the various converters work so you can see what your options are.

From IOTA Website:

"The Bulk Stage of the IQ4 allows the batteries to be charged from the full rated output of the charger (for example, a 12V charger will charge at a maximum of 14.8V). This increased charging period reduces the overall charging time of the battery."

As mentioned they do provide the base DLS that allows manual control during bulk charging but the automatic DLS IQ/4 will handle the task just fine.

https://www.iotaengineering.com/iq.htm

[BFL13]

"No reason to set to boost manually since it does it automatically. System will monitor low and high trigger values and initiate ideal charge values. Personally I don’t want to think about my chargers in my RV or Boat. Maybe you have reasons to want a manual boost option but I never needed that in any condition"

So we agree 🙂 The Iota's charge profile is suitable for some but not for some others.

Some battery specs call for 14.8v as the Absorption voltage (Vabs), and that stage can take hours "depending", so Iota's Vabs of 14.2 would not be suitable for those batteries.

Matching a preference for automatics for less fuss works well if the automatic charging profile matches the battery specs. If it does not, then you have to decide what to do if anything, and nobody else can make that choice.

The big thing is to know as much as possible about how the various converters work so you can see what your options are.

[DavidP]

BFL13 wrote:
Important to note that the IQ4 is not like the Charge Wizard. The IQ4 makes the Iota into a fixed profile three stage but does not give you the over-ride to keep it in boost longer.

After the battery reaches 14.6 you might want to keep it there for an hour or whatever instead of have it drop to 14.2. If you are ok with the Iota's fixed profile then no problem.

The IOTA DLS IQ/4 with integrated IQ4 is 4 stage not 3. Adding the module will also make the DLS 4 stage.

No reason to set to boost manually since it does it automatically. System will monitor low and high trigger values and initiate ideal charge values. Personally I don’t want to think about my chargers in my RV or Boat. Maybe you have reasons to want a manual boost option but I never needed that in any condition. If you want that with an IOTA get the non IQ/4 and use the dual voltage plug provided which will put it into fast charge/boost/bulk manually. You have to then remove the plug to allow unit to step down voltage.

IOTA 4 Stage:

BULK STAGE - During this state, the charger will operate either at Full Current output or Constant Voltage output depending
on the discharged state of the battery. A discharged battery will dictate the voltage and force the charger into constant current
operation. As the battery charges, the charger transitions to a constant-voltage operation. This BULK STAGE will
continue for either 225 minutes or until the battery voltage reaches the “High Trigger” value (whichever occurs first). At this
point, the BULK STAGE will operate for another 15 minutes before switching to the ABSORPTION STAGE.

ABSORPTION STAGE - This state is limited to 480 minutes (8 hours) during which the charger will operate either at Full
Current output or Constant Voltage output depending on the discharged state of the battery. During Full Current output, the
charger is providing its full current rating and will slowly increase the battery voltage to the “Absorption Stage” voltage. At the
end of the 480 minutes, the charger will revert to the FLOAT STAGE.

FLOAT STAGE - This charge state holds the batteries at Constant Voltage for a period not longer than seven days. During
this state, the charger not only floats the batteries, but it can also provide load current up its maximum rating for other loads
without depleting the battery capacity. The FLOAT STAGE will end when either the battery voltage drops below the “Low Trigger”
point or at the end of seven days when the IQ4 initiates an equalization stage to remove sulfate layers from the battery
plates. In either situation, the unit exits the FLOAT STAGE and enters the BULK STAGE.

FAULT STATE - If the IQ4 is exposed to an “over voltage” condition by exceeding the “Over Voltage Trigger,” its circuitry is
automatically disabled. In this state, the functionality of the IQ4 is completely disabled, the LED will flash irregularly, and the
charger reverts to a stand-alone FLOAT STATE voltage. The unit will not exit this stand-alone FLOAT STATE, therefore the
unit must be reset by following the steps below.

[BFL13]

Important to note that the IQ4 is not like the Charge Wizard. The IQ4 makes the Iota into a fixed profile three stage but does not give you the over-ride to keep it in boost longer.

After the battery reaches 14.6 you might want to keep it there for an hour or whatever instead of have it drop to 14.2. If you are ok with the Iota's fixed profile then no problem.

[DavidP]

Sandia Man wrote:
The Iota 45 amp converter is just fine for 2 batteries but you must get the IQ4 module (less than $30 online) and plug it into the side jack to make it a smart charger.

As an FYI for anyone looking at IOTA, it would be best to just buy the IOTA DLS-45/IQ4 with the 4 Stage Smart Charger built in. The model number will have IQ4 in it. There will be a port on it but it will be disabled.

[drsteve]

handye9 wrote:
Changing all the bulbs to LED's and supplementing your heat with something like this would reduce your power consumption. Maybe, to a point where existing charging options could keep up.

I have used one of these in my trailer. It does cut down the furnace run time.

+1 on the Buddy heater. Early spring camping in northern MI often involves subfreezing night time temps, causing the furnace in my popup to run the single GR31 battery down well before morning arrives, so I use a Big Buddy hooked to a 20 lb bottle as a supplement, and we stay toasty all night.