Ford files trademark for F200 pickup.

[Reisender]

Interesting. Here’s the link.

https://insideevs.com/news/685165/ford-f200-trademark-filing/?fbclid=IwAR3Yi8D4IAgQ3KV3QwspPB69fXQgr...

[way2roll]

Reisender wrote:

way2roll wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Fisherman wrote:

Ok. But the easy answer is just not to buy one if it doesn’t suit you. Obviously many people prefer the tech, performance and convenience of an EV. It’s probably what makes them the number one selling car in the world.

For others it’s the wrong fit and they buy something else. Drive what you love and love what you drive.

As far as tow vehicles just buy a gas or diesel vehicle if that’s what you need. Presently electric tow vehicles are fine for small low profile trailers. I’m sure that will change a lot in the next 5 years. If you have a bigger trailer there is a large choice of gas and diesel vehicles.

Cheers.

EV's are the number one car selling in the world? Where are you getting your information? Currently - even with an increase in sales that has once again slowed - EV's sales make up 7% of the market share. It's not even possible with current production to make them the number one selling vehicle. Not even close.

Once again you miss my overarching point - it's not just about what I want or don't want to buy. These initiatives put me on the hook to pay for them whether I want to buy one or not. My opinion doesn't matter. It's being forced instead of organic free market. EV's are being mandated at the consumer and manufacturer level. I guess it's fine if they up your taxes and cost of electricity, and landfill fees etc to support the initiative if you agree with it.

[Reisender]

way2roll wrote:

Reisender wrote:

Fisherman wrote:
I don't know how they can claim zero emissions, how much emissions were made in the construction/production of them and how (ow) much?

I’m not sure what you are asking. During the operation of the vehicle there are no exhaust emissions.

Emissions during manufacture are a different metric and are easy to find and compare on the web.

That's the biggest catch phrase of the EV argument - "zero emissions". most of the sales pitch and metrics for EV's is tailpipe emissions - there is no tailpipe.

There's a TON of conflicting and manipulated information as to the ecological impacts of EV production and end of life. There's also humanitarian impacts and resource availability. You don't hear much about the latter 2. But resources required for EV production are limited- more so than the materials for ICE production. Dependency of foreign nations for materials is also a major factor. The energy grid will be leveraged proportionate to the decline of gasoline. That requires infrastructure and demand - both of those will impact consumer cost and taxes. I'm already seeing articles on how it costs more to charge an EV than the cost to fill up an ICE. Again, we haven't solved anything. Just traded old problems for new ones and to produce a product that to date is inferior in performance with respect to tow vehicles. But that's what's been decided on our path. There is no choice.

Ok. But the easy answer is just not to buy one if it doesn’t suit you. Obviously many people prefer the tech, performance and convenience of an EV. It’s probably what makes them the number one selling car in the world.

For others it’s the wrong fit and they buy something else. Drive what you love and love what you drive.

As far as tow vehicles just buy a gas or diesel vehicle if that’s what you need. Presently electric tow vehicles are fine for small low profile trailers. I’m sure that will change a lot in the next 5 years. If you have a bigger trailer there is a large choice of gas and diesel vehicles.

Cheers.

[way2roll]

Reisender wrote:

Fisherman wrote:
I don't know how they can claim zero emissions, how much emissions were made in the construction/production of them and how (ow) much?

I’m not sure what you are asking. During the operation of the vehicle there are no exhaust emissions.

Emissions during manufacture are a different metric and are easy to find and compare on the web.

That's the biggest catch phrase of the EV argument - "zero emissions". most of the sales pitch and metrics for EV's is tailpipe emissions - there is no tailpipe.

There's a TON of conflicting and manipulated information as to the ecological impacts of EV production and end of life. There's also humanitarian impacts and resource availability. You don't hear much about the latter 2. But resources required for EV production are limited- more so than the materials for ICE production. Dependency of foreign nations for materials is also a major factor. The energy grid will be leveraged proportionate to the decline of gasoline. That requires infrastructure and demand - both of those will impact consumer cost and taxes. I'm already seeing articles on how it costs more to charge an EV than the cost to fill up an ICE. Again, we haven't solved anything. Just traded old problems for new ones and to produce a product that to date is inferior in performance with respect to tow vehicles. But that's what's been decided on our path. There is no choice.

[way2roll]

time2roll wrote:

mosseater wrote:
I think we should try steam again as well.

Yes and fired with coal or heavy sulfur crude 😉

Anyone know the range of a steam train engine before needing water?

Farther than an EV. 🙂

[time2roll]

mosseater wrote:
I think we should try steam again as well.

Yes and fired with coal or heavy sulfur crude 😉

Anyone know the range of a steam train engine before needing water?

[Reisender]

Fisherman wrote:
I don't know how they can claim zero emissions, how much emissions were made in the construction/production of them and how (ow) much?

I’m not sure what you are asking. During the operation of the vehicle there are no exhaust emissions.

Emissions during manufacture are a different metric and are easy to find and compare on the web.

[Fisherman]

I don't know how they can claim zero emissions, how much emissions were made in the construction/production of them and how (ow) much?

[BB_TX]

FishOnOne wrote:

mosseater wrote:
I think we should try steam again as well.

Or horse propulsion

One has a smoke stack. The other has a different kind of tailpipe emissions. :B

[FishOnOne]

mosseater wrote:
I think we should try steam again as well.

Or horse propulsion

[mosseater]

I think we should try steam again as well.

[BB_TX]

EVs are the future until, and if, something better comes along. Maybe a new technology will step up. Maybe not. Either way ICE engines will slowly be phased out. EVs are leaps and bounds above what they were a few years ago. And will continue to improve. And the charging infrastructure will continue to improve and expand. Manufacturing techniques and procedures will, by necessity, become more efficient and cleaner. Recycling will advance significantly. Electric generation will continue to expand using renewable sources, again by necessity.

IF a new and better technology comes along, then the whole process will start over and redirect toward that technology replacing EV and what is left of ICE.

But for the near future the auto manufacturers are going to be developing and marketing newer and more advanced EVs to be first to the market with the next best and most appealing one. Some will fail. But the manufacturer that is first to put out the one that is a step above everyone else and exudes that WOW factor will lead the market. And the one everyone else strives to equal or exceed. And that is what we can expect for the near future.

[way2roll]

BB_TX wrote:

way2roll wrote:
I guess the real question is - is Ford doing this based on what they thought organic capitalistic demand is, or under government duress and funding to insulate from failure? …. .

I would say it is a competitive move, not just Ford, by all of them to get ahead of the game rather than try to play the come from behind game later. Whoever is first is likely to reap the greater profits. Like it or not EV is the future.

I'll have to disagree. I think it's the interim future depending on who is holding the purse and the iron fist. But there's too many downsides to EV's right now. And while I get first gen of any product will have to have it's evolution, EV's just aren't better than ICE's. Not in performance and not in measurable ecological impact when you look at the process cradle to grave. And in order to have a real success, a product needs to be better than the one it's replacing. Either that or have it forced upon you. But being forced just illustrates my argument. If EV's were better they would have succeeded through their own merits decades ago. Success isn't really success if it's mandated. Consumer demand won't support the current EV offerings to offset ICE sales. Reminds me of the whole DEF solution for diesel emissions. Sure it might work on paper, but it's clunky, messy, provides it's own ecological impacts to production and the capper - the container it's in is not recyclable. Just trading one set of problems for another. This isn't solving anything - aside from filling more coffers. BTW - I am in no way anti EV. I am all for freedom of choice to buy the products you want. I don't want to infringe on any potential EV buyer from living their dream. Just don't make it part of my tax bill.

[BB_TX]

way2roll wrote:
I guess the real question is - is Ford doing this based on what they thought organic capitalistic demand is, or under government duress and funding to insulate from failure? …. .

I would say it is a competitive move, not just Ford, by all of them to get ahead of the game rather than try to play the come from behind game later. Whoever is first is likely to reap the greater profits. Like it or not EV is the future.

[Grit_dog]

^X3

[Latner]

way2roll wrote:
I guess the real question is - is Ford doing this based on what they thought organic capitalistic demand is, or under government duress and funding to insulate from failure? If you throw enough money at something you can make it work, but is it really what consumers want? The net result is, it doesn't matter. Because whether you buy these vehicles or not, as a taxpayer you're still footing the bill either way- success or failure. But consumer demand is not the driving force behind this effort. Good thing the government knows what I need so I don't have to think about it.

X2