Ford vs Chevy vs Ram HD DRW Drag Race

[FishOnOne]

3...2...1... Let's Go!

Enjoy

Link


BTW... Since TFL has their Ram truck hopefully we can see an Ike pull

[Cummins12V98]

That's impressive!

[FishOnOne]

I remember a while back a GM engineer went on record saying there's was no TQ management about the same time the 10 speed transmission was released.

[Huntindog]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
NOT calling you a liar but can you prove this???

"The result is that torque managament in first gear is no longer needed."

My source was GM. I forget exactly when/where/how. I can tell you that the TQ managment was noticeable in my 2001 and 2011. Not at all in my 2020. Turn the traction control off and it's like driving my camaro:B

[Cummins12V98]

NOT calling you a liar but can you prove this???

"The result is that torque managament in first gear is no longer needed."

[Huntindog]

ksss wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

ksss wrote:
The fact that under load the Duramax was faster 0-60 than the PS. I actually expected the DMax to be faster empty. It clearly was not. I guess one can assume that the PS is managed under load and less so running empty. The DMax must have less management all the way around, but left to the numbers, the PS's additional HP, left unmanaged, is more than the DMax can match.

From a GM perspective, if your coming in statistically that much lower than the PS, you better turn it loose to compete. If your looking for a reason to find this interesting, this video shows that driving either one of these pickups as a daily, it will perform empty very much like a high hp gas 1500/150, the PS even more so.

What exactly are you thinking torque management is? I doubt very much that the Ford's poor performance on the hill has anything to do with torque management. That said, I have no idea why it performed so poorly. I know that my '21 Powerstroke got better fuel economy than my '22 Powerstroke does... both trucks were spec'ed identical. My brother's '22 (spec'd identical to my '22) gets similar mileage to what my '21 got. Maybe there are slight differences that make one engine more efficient or more powerful than another?

I think torque management is the pickup depowering itself to stop from damaging itself. It could be just differences in pickups. I don't know obviously what the exact cause is, it just seems when these trucks now know when their overloaded that it would be easy to manage the torque depending on the weight they are pulling. With the power that the Ford has, maybe they try to protect the pickup when pulling that much weight from aggressive starts. With the pickup unloaded, they allow it to run more aggressively. The Ford pickup in the drag race decisively was faster than the DMax, seems more than just a difference in one pickup to another. GM was infamous for a while for "dead pedal", a form of torque management. That went away when the trucks were able to tow more weight. Perhaps Ford is doing something similar. Going up the IKE, the Ford should have owned that run, and while it was the fastest, it should have been much faster as you pointed out. As I stated before, given how warm the Ford got, I am left to believe they manage the power when pulling heavy.

They all have power management systems. It keeps warranty claims down. You just do not hear of motors gernading anymore. Having said that, GM for one has worked hard to keep it's Dmax out of power management range. Gale banks had a video about all of the cooling upgrades they did so that the Dmax can provide full power at all times. This is my third one, and though the first two had no cooling issues, the latest one takes it to another level. I am in Phoenix AZ, and tow pretty heavy. It just doesn't even think about getting hot. The first two did limit power in first gear to protect the rear axle. With the new 10 speed, they were able to use a taller (stronger) gearset in the rear axle. They also increased the size of the ring gear. The result is that torque managament in first gear is no longer needed.

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:
And this is one of the reasons why I kept away from this forum. Too much brand bashing and my favorite brand is better than your favorite brand instead of just enjoying what we have. I understand why it happens and why people do it, but I'd rather just stay away from it.

Just checked in after six months only to see nothing has changed. See ya'll in another six. Hopefully this forum will get past this by then.

Prost, everybody!

Hey... Prost to you too! :C

[Grit_dog]

ShinerBock wrote:
And this is one of the reasons why I kept away from this forum. Too much brand bashing and my favorite brand is better than your favorite brand instead of just enjoying what we have. I understand why it happens and why people do it, but I'd rather just stay away from it.

Just checked in after six months only to see nothing has changed. See ya'll in another six. Hopefully this forum will get past this by then.

Prost, everybody!

Sup shiner?
Me and 12V are gettin our a$$es handed to us by all the Flowerjoke drivers lately!
Need you back! Lol.
Take care man. Hope alls well.

[Cummins12V98]

YEP, it's the one that gets you there every time!!!

[goducks10]

Towed home from a CG today. 170 miles worth. Wouldn't of mattered if I had a 6.0 gas or a 6.7 PS. Traffic was thick with slow going semis and motorhome scenery gawkers. Not sure even a new ZO6 would've been much help.
FWIW I didn't watch the video.

[ShinerBock]

And this is one of the reasons why I kept away from this forum. Too much brand bashing and my favorite brand is better than your favorite brand instead of just enjoying what we have. I understand why it happens and why people do it, but I'd rather just stay away from it.

Just checked in after six months only to see nothing has changed. See ya'll in another six. Hopefully this forum will get past this by then.

Prost, everybody!

[4x4ord]

^^^It’s interesting that the 2024 Duramax appears to be an over achiever when you consider how it almost kept up to the much higher rated HO Powerstroke. If, however, you compare the 2024 Duramax towing 27000 lbs to the 2020 regular output Powestroke towing 30,000 lbs up the hill, the Duramax doesn’t look overly impressive.

Because the Duramax has a little higher rpm band than the Ford you’d expect both the 1050 lbft Powerstroke and the 975 lbft Duramax to be making about 400 HP at the point where they would downshift…. 2250 rpm for the Duramax and 2050 rpm for the Powerstroke. At 2600 rpm the Powerstroke is rated at 475 Hp and the Duramax 470 at 2800 rpm so we’d expect the two engines to pull very similar.

The rear wheel power required to pull a load up a hill is the sum of three values: the power required to overcome drag + power required to overcome rolling resistance + power required to lift the weight from the bottom of the hill to the top. Because both the 2020 Powerstroke and the 2024 Duramax were pulling different trailers up the hill we can’t say exactly but it would seem reasonable to say that it would take slightly more power to overcome rolling resistance on the 30,000 lb trailer vs the power to overcome rolling resistance on the 27000 lb trailer. If the power required to overcome rolling resistance at 44.7 mph on the 38500 lb combination is 60 hp it would require very close to 55 hp to overcome rolling resistance with a 35500 lb combination at 44.7 mph. It would also seem reasonable to expect the power required to overcome air resistance at 44.7 mph with the two trailers to be somewhat similar and not a huge number …. say 50 hp in both cases.

The 2023 Powerstoke would have averaged 45.7 mph which would have required very close to 56 hp to overcome rolling resistance and another 51 hp to overcome drag.

The power required for the 2020 Powerstroke to lift 38500 lbs from the bottom of the hill to the top (2300 feet) in 620 seconds can be easily calculated and is exactly 259.7 HP.
The power required for the 2024 Duramax to lift the 35500 lb combination the 2300 feet in 620 seconds is exactly 239.4 HP.
The power required for the 2023 Powerstroke to lift the 35500 lb combination 2300 feet in 607 seconds is precisely 244.6 hp.

So the 2020 Powerstroke made somewhere close to 370 rear wheel hp to pull its load up the Ike.
The 2024 Duramax made somewhere close to 344 rear wheel hp to pull its load up the Ike.
And the 2023 high output Powestroke would have made very close to 352 rear wheel hp.

[FishOnOne]

ksss wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

ksss wrote:
The fact that under load the Duramax was faster 0-60 than the PS. I actually expected the DMax to be faster empty. It clearly was not. I guess one can assume that the PS is managed under load and less so running empty. The DMax must have less management all the way around, but left to the numbers, the PS's additional HP, left unmanaged, is more than the DMax can match.

From a GM perspective, if your coming in statistically that much lower than the PS, you better turn it loose to compete. If your looking for a reason to find this interesting, this video shows that driving either one of these pickups as a daily, it will perform empty very much like a high hp gas 1500/150, the PS even more so.

What exactly are you thinking torque management is? I doubt very much that the Ford's poor performance on the hill has anything to do with torque management. That said, I have no idea why it performed so poorly. I know that my '21 Powerstroke got better fuel economy than my '22 Powerstroke does... both trucks were spec'ed identical. My brother's '22 (spec'd identical to my '22) gets similar mileage to what my '21 got. Maybe there are slight differences that make one engine more efficient or more powerful than another?

I think torque management is the pickup depowering itself to stop from damaging itself. It could be just differences in pickups. I don't know obviously what the exact cause is, it just seems when these trucks now know when their overloaded that it would be easy to manage the torque depending on the weight they are pulling. With the power that the Ford has, maybe they try to protect the pickup when pulling that much weight from aggressive starts. With the pickup unloaded, they allow it to run more aggressively. The Ford pickup in the drag race decisively was faster than the DMax, seems more than just a difference in one pickup to another. GM was infamous for a while for "dead pedal", a form of torque management. That went away when the trucks were able to tow more weight. Perhaps Ford is doing something similar. Going up the IKE, the Ford should have owned that run, and while it was the fastest, it should have been much faster as you pointed out. As I stated before, given how warm the Ford got, I am left to believe they manage the power when pulling heavy.

For some reason the Ford stayed in 6th gear for a while and then it finally shifted to 7th gear and then gained some speed. Not sure why, but this is what it did. Although my truck is a'12, it sometimes does a late shift as well. Having said that we now know the 2020 Power Stroke was way underrated and I suspect the 2024 Duramax is underrated as well.

[ksss]

4x4ord wrote:

ksss wrote:
The fact that under load the Duramax was faster 0-60 than the PS. I actually expected the DMax to be faster empty. It clearly was not. I guess one can assume that the PS is managed under load and less so running empty. The DMax must have less management all the way around, but left to the numbers, the PS's additional HP, left unmanaged, is more than the DMax can match.

From a GM perspective, if your coming in statistically that much lower than the PS, you better turn it loose to compete. If your looking for a reason to find this interesting, this video shows that driving either one of these pickups as a daily, it will perform empty very much like a high hp gas 1500/150, the PS even more so.

What exactly are you thinking torque management is? I doubt very much that the Ford's poor performance on the hill has anything to do with torque management. That said, I have no idea why it performed so poorly. I know that my '21 Powerstroke got better fuel economy than my '22 Powerstroke does... both trucks were spec'ed identical. My brother's '22 (spec'd identical to my '22) gets similar mileage to what my '21 got. Maybe there are slight differences that make one engine more efficient or more powerful than another?

I think torque management is the pickup depowering itself to stop from damaging itself. It could be just differences in pickups. I don't know obviously what the exact cause is, it just seems when these trucks now know when their overloaded that it would be easy to manage the torque depending on the weight they are pulling. With the power that the Ford has, maybe they try to protect the pickup when pulling that much weight from aggressive starts. With the pickup unloaded, they allow it to run more aggressively. The Ford pickup in the drag race decisively was faster than the DMax, seems more than just a difference in one pickup to another. GM was infamous for a while for "dead pedal", a form of torque management. That went away when the trucks were able to tow more weight. Perhaps Ford is doing something similar. Going up the IKE, the Ford should have owned that run, and while it was the fastest, it should have been much faster as you pointed out. As I stated before, given how warm the Ford got, I am left to believe they manage the power when pulling heavy.

[larry_barnhart]

Because all 3 trucks have more power than My 2005 the results mean nothing to me. never had a speed issue just had to have 4 rear tires.

retired from rving chevman