2020 PSD owner compares it to his 2019 PSD towing 18K

[ShinerBock]

This just came across my recommended videos on YouTube after watching Fish's 2020 7.3L video. He gives a pretty honest (and long) comparison for this who have a 2017-2019 and are thinking about switching. He also has a Banks iDash so you can see some of the temps although I believe the pyro-meter for the EGT's on the PSD is after turbo just like the CTD is which is about 300-400F cooler than pre-turbo numbers where most aftermarket pyro's are.

2020 FORD SUPERDUTY 10 SPEED TOWING 18,000lbs!

[FishOnOne]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
FISH is this your truck? Son took this pic East side DFW, TX.

Seems it would fit your personality. :B

Not hardly... This is my look with 187k miles.

[Cummins12V98]

FISH is this your truck? Son took this pic East side DFW, TX.

Seems it would fit your personality. :B

[ksss]

I agree with all of that. Especially when the value of the truck is less than the cost to fix it. That will park a lot of trucks that could have gone on to live longer lives and upset a lot od owners that now own a new piece of lawn art. Bosch, in my view should have been held more accountable for that. I guess OEM's option in using something other than Bosch is how that is going to be handled. My point was simply the fluctuating fact base used by some to keep waving their favorite flag.

[Grit_dog]

^Mayne the early 6.7 Powerstrokes will become bargain buys for the machanically adept folks just like the 6.0s!

[blofgren]

ksss wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Has ANYONE heard of a 2019 or 2020 RAM/CUMMINS Bosch fuel pump failure??????

Same with FORD??????

Yes, there was a 2019 Ram/Cummins failure; I'm sure Fish has it bookmarked. :B On one of the Ram forums, there was a tech saying that he fully expected to see them fail.

As for 2020's, it is likely too early to see any but I'm sure they're coming.

Given the risk of this disaster, there is no way that I will ever own a truck with one.

Ok so that’s one. Was there any follow up as to if it was the pumps fault or possibly someone dumping DEF in the fuel tank.

I am a member on the TDR, not a peep.

Cummins12V when Cummins was using the CP3 it was a main talking point of yours as one of the major advantages of the RAM. Now that Cummins has a 4, you ask for proof its not a POS. You never accepted that in the years before. A CP4 was poop, plain and simple. I think at its worst the 4 had what...2% failure rate in FORD and GM? Costly as hell if the warranty doesn't pick it up, but a rather small failure rate. Yet you played it like a fiddle. Now you take the exact opposite side when RAM takes the CP4. Consistency is a major part of credibility.

It's not the failure rate that is a problem; it's the catastrophic damage that occurs that is the problem. I'm sorry, but the CP4 is a disaster, plain and simple. If it simply quit when it failed like the CP3, that would be one thing, but that's not what happens. And there have been plenty of them that have failed with no signs of any contamination whatsoever. There have been several news stories in my area about it with VW diesel car owners PO'd because of the huge repair bills they have faced when their pumps grenaded.

And remember, all vehicles are eventually off warranty. I still predict many 6.7L Ford trucks in the graveyard early because the cost to repair them will far surpass the value of the truck. As it is, the early 6.7L trucks are going for low $20k's CDN in my area now.

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

LOL, that is all new CP4 pumps and is one reason why it puts out higher pressure than the CP3 and even gen 1 CP4's on the older Ford's and GM's. I know Lavon(he actually made one of my tunes for my truck) and I know he hasn't had a 2020 PSD in his shop yet to even compare the two to know whether or not it turn more than the new 2020 PSD. So he is comparing to older CP4's which maxed out at 29,000 psi and Ford used every bit of that pressure(to make more power). The old CP3 Cummins maxed out at 29,000 psi, but Cummins only used 26,000 psi.

It also appears that I was incorrect on it being a CP4-27. From the looks at it from Bosch's website, the Ford and Cummins is the CP4-25 variant which maxes out at 2,500 bar or 36,000 psi. However, Cummins only utilizes 29,000 psi from the pump and Ford uses all 36,000 psi of it's max pressure. The CP4-27 is for larger engines.

LINK

Cummins increased the rpm of the CP4.2 to increase fuel volume in a 29k psi configuration compared to the Ford and GM which ran at a lower rpm. Also I'm pretty sure the 2020 Power Stroke didn't increase the rpm of the CP4.2.

So you are basing on this assumptions(aka blind faith) from what Lavon stated in his video, and not verified facts. You are assuming that Lavon is talking about all CP4 pumps from 2011-2020, and not just the gen one that both GM and Ford shared. I am willing to bet that he is only comparing the gen 2 CP4 on the Cummins to the gen 1 versions of of the CP4 found in the 2011-2014 Fords and 2011-2016 GMs. The Gen 2 had a longer stroke (which requires it to spin faster) which Ford went to in 2015. In fact, I needed to call him about a shift revision for my tune anyways so I can verify tomorrow.

Good grief... spin it however you like.

[Cummins12V98]

"Cummins12V when Cummins was using the CP3 it was a main talking point of yours as one of the major advantages of the RAM. Now that Cummins has a 4, you ask for proof its not a POS. You never accepted that in the years before. A CP4 was poop, plain and simple. I think at its worst the 4 had what...2% failure rate in FORD and GM? Costly as hell if the warranty doesn't pick it up, but a rather small failure rate. Yet you played it like a fiddle. Now you take the exact opposite side when RAM takes the CP4. Consistency is a major part of credibility."

..............................


Sorry you have NOT seen me ANYWHERE say the CUMMINS CP4 is great, dependable or reliable. All I have said is I have seen NO Ford or Cummins CP4 failures in the last two model years. That is why I was ASKING if anyone had seen any failures. Ford pumps seem to be doing fine for even longer.

During the time of all the Ford and GM failures I sure did mention the dependability of the CP3.

Would I buy a 19 or 20? I was planning on a 20 but honestly I like the looks of mine much better so I will hold onto it for a while longer. Not buying a 20 has nothing to do with the pump as like I said it appears to be fine. If I did buy a 20 and the pump failed it would get covered for the first 100k.

[ShinerBock]

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

LOL, that is all new CP4 pumps and is one reason why it puts out higher pressure than the CP3 and even gen 1 CP4's on the older Ford's and GM's. I know Lavon(he actually made one of my tunes for my truck) and I know he hasn't had a 2020 PSD in his shop yet to even compare the two to know whether or not it turn more than the new 2020 PSD. So he is comparing to older CP4's which maxed out at 29,000 psi and Ford used every bit of that pressure(to make more power). The old CP3 Cummins maxed out at 29,000 psi, but Cummins only used 26,000 psi.

It also appears that I was incorrect on it being a CP4-27. From the looks at it from Bosch's website, the Ford and Cummins is the CP4-25 variant which maxes out at 2,500 bar or 36,000 psi. However, Cummins only utilizes 29,000 psi from the pump and Ford uses all 36,000 psi of it's max pressure. The CP4-27 is for larger engines.

LINK

Cummins increased the rpm of the CP4.2 to increase fuel volume in a 29k psi configuration compared to the Ford and GM which ran at a lower rpm. Also I'm pretty sure the 2020 Power Stroke didn't increase the rpm of the CP4.2.

So you are basing on this assumptions(aka blind faith) from what Lavon stated in his video, and not verified facts. You are assuming that Lavon is talking about all CP4 pumps from 2011-2020, and not just the gen one that both GM and Ford shared. I am willing to bet that he is only comparing the gen 2 CP4 on the Cummins to the gen 1 versions of of the CP4 found in the 2011-2014 Fords and 2011-2016 GMs. The Gen 2 had a longer stroke (which requires it to spin faster) which Ford went to in 2015. In fact, I needed to call him about a shift revision for my tune anyways so I can verify tomorrow.

[FishOnOne]

ksss wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Has ANYONE heard of a 2019 or 2020 RAM/CUMMINS Bosch fuel pump failure??????

Same with FORD??????

Yes, there was a 2019 Ram/Cummins failure; I'm sure Fish has it bookmarked. :B On one of the Ram forums, there was a tech saying that he fully expected to see them fail.

As for 2020's, it is likely too early to see any but I'm sure they're coming.

Given the risk of this disaster, there is no way that I will ever own a truck with one.

Ok so that’s one. Was there any follow up as to if it was the pumps fault or possibly someone dumping DEF in the fuel tank.

I am a member on the TDR, not a peep.

Cummins12V when Cummins was using the CP3 it was a main talking point of yours as one of the major advantages of the RAM. Now that Cummins has a 4, you ask for proof its not a POS. You never accepted that in the years before. A CP4 was poop, plain and simple. I think at its worst the 4 had what...2% failure rate in FORD and GM? Costly as hell if the warranty doesn't pick it up, but a rather small failure rate. Yet you played it like a fiddle. Now you take the exact opposite side when RAM takes the CP4. Consistency is a major part of credibility.

Blind faith at it's best...

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


I never said the CP4.2 is a second generation pump.

Also for the Cummins setup now with a overdriven CP4.2 go look at the number of teeth on a CP3 setup vs a CP4.2 setup. The CP4.2 is now being turned alot faster than a CP3 and even faster than the Ford setup. By turning the CP4.2 even faster I can't imagine that's a good thing.

This is news to me and I would have to verify. What rpm is the Ford pump running versus the Cummins?

Here's some information from Firepunk on this topic at the 2:00min mark. Noticed they also had to install head studs at this power level.

Link

LOL, that is all new CP4 pumps and is one reason why it puts out higher pressure than the CP3 and even gen 1 CP4's on the older Ford's and GM's. I know Lavon(he actually made one of my tunes for my truck) and I know he hasn't had a 2020 PSD in his shop yet to even compare the two to know whether or not it turn more than the new 2020 PSD. So he is comparing to older CP4's which maxed out at 29,000 psi and Ford used every bit of that pressure(to make more power). The old CP3 Cummins maxed out at 29,000 psi, but Cummins only used 26,000 psi.

It also appears that I was incorrect on it being a CP4-27. From the looks at it from Bosch's website, the Ford and Cummins is the CP4-25 variant which maxes out at 2,500 bar or 36,000 psi. However, Cummins only utilizes 29,000 psi from the pump and Ford uses all 36,000 psi of it's max pressure. The CP4-27 is for larger engines.

LINK

Cummins increased the rpm of the CP4.2 to increase fuel volume in a 29k psi configuration compared to the Ford and GM which ran at a lower rpm. Also I'm pretty sure the 2020 Power Stroke didn't increase the rpm of the CP4.2.

[ksss]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Has ANYONE heard of a 2019 or 2020 RAM/CUMMINS Bosch fuel pump failure??????

Same with FORD??????

Yes, there was a 2019 Ram/Cummins failure; I'm sure Fish has it bookmarked. :B On one of the Ram forums, there was a tech saying that he fully expected to see them fail.

As for 2020's, it is likely too early to see any but I'm sure they're coming.

Given the risk of this disaster, there is no way that I will ever own a truck with one.

Ok so that’s one. Was there any follow up as to if it was the pumps fault or possibly someone dumping DEF in the fuel tank.

I am a member on the TDR, not a peep.

Cummins12V when Cummins was using the CP3 it was a main talking point of yours as one of the major advantages of the RAM. Now that Cummins has a 4, you ask for proof its not a POS. You never accepted that in the years before. A CP4 was poop, plain and simple. I think at its worst the 4 had what...2% failure rate in FORD and GM? Costly as hell if the warranty doesn't pick it up, but a rather small failure rate. Yet you played it like a fiddle. Now you take the exact opposite side when RAM takes the CP4. Consistency is a major part of credibility.

[ShinerBock]

FishOnOne wrote:

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


I never said the CP4.2 is a second generation pump.

Also for the Cummins setup now with a overdriven CP4.2 go look at the number of teeth on a CP3 setup vs a CP4.2 setup. The CP4.2 is now being turned alot faster than a CP3 and even faster than the Ford setup. By turning the CP4.2 even faster I can't imagine that's a good thing.

This is news to me and I would have to verify. What rpm is the Ford pump running versus the Cummins?

Here's some information from Firepunk on this topic at the 2:00min mark. Noticed they also had to install head studs at this power level.

Link

LOL, that is all new CP4 pumps and is one reason why it puts out higher pressure than the CP3 and even gen 1 CP4's on the older Ford's and GM's. I know Lavon(he actually made one of my tunes for my truck) and I know he hasn't had a 2020 PSD in his shop yet to even compare the two to know whether or not it turn more than the new 2020 PSD. So he is comparing to older CP4's which maxed out at 29,000 psi and Ford used every bit of that pressure(to make more power). The old CP3 Cummins maxed out at 29,000 psi, but Cummins only used 26,000 psi.

It also appears that I was incorrect on it being a CP4-27. From the looks at it from Bosch's website, the Ford and Cummins is the CP4-25 variant which maxes out at 2,500 bar or 36,000 psi. However, Cummins only utilizes 29,000 psi from the pump and Ford uses all 36,000 psi of it's max pressure. The CP4-27 is for larger engines.

LINK

[FishOnOne]

ShinerBock wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:


I never said the CP4.2 is a second generation pump.

Also for the Cummins setup now with a overdriven CP4.2 go look at the number of teeth on a CP3 setup vs a CP4.2 setup. The CP4.2 is now being turned alot faster than a CP3 and even faster than the Ford setup. By turning the CP4.2 even faster I can't imagine that's a good thing.

This is news to me and I would have to verify. What rpm is the Ford pump running versus the Cummins?

Here's some information from Firepunk on this topic at the 2:00min mark. Noticed they also had to install head studs at this power level.

Link

[Cummins12V98]

blofgren wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Has ANYONE heard of a 2019 or 2020 RAM/CUMMINS Bosch fuel pump failure??????

Same with FORD??????

Yes, there was a 2019 Ram/Cummins failure; I'm sure Fish has it bookmarked. :B On one of the Ram forums, there was a tech saying that he fully expected to see them fail.

As for 2020's, it is likely too early to see any but I'm sure they're coming.

Given the risk of this disaster, there is no way that I will ever own a truck with one.

Ok so that’s one. Was there any follow up as to if it was the pumps fault or possibly someone dumping DEF in the fuel tank.

I am a member on the TDR, not a peep.

[blofgren]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Has ANYONE heard of a 2019 or 2020 RAM/CUMMINS Bosch fuel pump failure??????

Same with FORD??????

Yes, there was a 2019 Ram/Cummins failure; I'm sure Fish has it bookmarked. :B On one of the Ram forums, there was a tech saying that he fully expected to see them fail.

As for 2020's, it is likely too early to see any but I'm sure they're coming.

Given the risk of this disaster, there is no way that I will ever own a truck with one.