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70 degrees F

udp8
Explorer
Explorer
Hi Everyone!

One thing standing between city life and even part time boondocking (long trips) is the wife's need for a reasonable comfort level. We're not talking seat cushions and TV channels - no, she is happy with a book and a slab to sit on.

The thing she keeps asking about is if the TCs we have been looking at could sustain 70 degrees (more or less) during both the coldest of winter days and the hottest summer ones.

Of course, ambient external temps are important to this question. In the cold, we'd be in the mountains in the snow, either in California or Colorado. California is more mild, so let's start with that. Think daytime temps in the 30s and 40s on cooler stormy days. Night temps are only below zero on very rare occasions, usually won't get colder than 15.

Of course, after bed time, the inside temp doesn't have to be 70, but would be nice around 50.

Summer is less of a concern, but we'll still ask. We'd be enjoying summers in the West where it's dry with temps up to probably 110-ish max.

I know the TC and its equipment make a big difference too. We are looking for a TC on the bigger end of the scale and have been considering everything from your typical Lance (but heard some people online complain about insulation in Lance) to Arctic Fox to Chalet's big triple slider. We could downsize a tad if smaller inside airspace made a huge difference.

Investing in good heating and A/C equipment is something we could do, but would be nice to know that the rig we buy isn't simply going to leak it all out. Also would want to know the impacts on long term dry camping (heaters and A/C using lots of propane/battery versus if we had a mondo solar and wind setup to keep it juiced, etc).

There's lots of angles to take on this one, but I guess the thrust of the question is is it within the realm of possibility to keep inside temps of a modern TC near 70 degrees during the day without extreme modifications?
27 REPLIES 27

udp8
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks for your help. We like to stay in one area for extended trips, nowhere near an hour of driving even when we go to get more LPG. Hmm. Well that's going to be something to consider and try to figure out.

Back on topic, it's been suggested in earlier posts that some TCs might be better insulated than others. Anyone have tips or opinions what brands OR what features we need to be looking for?

kohldad
Explorer III
Explorer III
The fan is just a cheap one from Lowe's or Walmart (something like this), cost about $15. It does not have a thermostat, just fan, 600W, and 1,500W setting. To control temp, I break the hot side of the power feed with a baseboard thermostat.

At those temps, not sure you could make two weeks, but you should make about 10 days with a decent unit and twin tanks. Typically, you are limited to about one week of groceries, water, and sewer anyhow due to limited space.

Power consumption is a whole other subject. With about a 200W solar unit or small generator, you could probably do what you want with ease. Without solar on one or two batteries, you could only make a couple days per battery at most. Hopefully someone else will give you a link to some good 12v tutorial that will show you how to calculate what you need. (I looked, but couldn't find the links I was looking to give you).

Another factor is how long you plan on sitting still. I am almost always on the move. Without, I could get two days out of one battery, including one recharge of my laptop. Fortunately, my current truck tops of the battery with only two hours of highway driving or three hours of slow cruising.
2015 Ram 3500 4x4 Crew Cab SRW 6.4 Hemi LB 3.73 (12.4 hand calc avg mpg after 92,000 miles with camper)
2004 Lance 815 (prev: 2004 FW 35'; 1994 TT 30'; Tents)

udp8
Explorer
Explorer
kohldad wrote:
I use a 600W fan forced electric heater fed through a baseboard thermostate


Thanks for the informative post. Can you explain more what this heater is? Sorry, noobie to all this stuff.

Sounds like if you have a rig with two LPG tanks you can run your furnace to 70F inside for nearly two weeks in medium cold conditions (say 15F night and 40F day)?

If you add laptop usage to that, the heater fan(s), a couple light bulbs, pump for water usage ---- you know, basic living with heavy laptop usage, does that cut your off-grid time in half? Even less?

kbaum
Explorer
Explorer
It doesn't work with my wife to maintain a 70 degree temp. when the hot flashes come the fans and air conditioner go on right away or the heater is turned off. Of course immediately after the hot flash runs its course warmth is necessary.

Anyone have any thermostat that can handle that situation?
2013 Northern Lite 10 cdse
2012 Dodge 3500 SRW 4x4 Cummins Crew Cab

Newmar Dutch Star 4018 (home)

kohldad
Explorer III
Explorer III
Haven't found temps yet the furnace won't maintain or run you out. Typical truck camper furnace is 18,000 or 20,000 btu. My 35' FW was only rated for 30,000# btu and heated 3 times the space with ease.

For propane, in temps down to 0*, I can easily make 3 days with a single 20# tank. With temps only down to freezing, can easily make 5 days. Turning the furnace down to 50* at night really helps. Even at 50*, we sometimes have to throw off a blanket, thanks to the oversized 0* sleeping bag we spread out over the top of us.

Cost at local Ace Hardware is about $17. You don't want to go with the ready filled tanks unless it is an emergency as they are usually a bit more expensive but more importantly are not a full tank, sometimes as much as only 15#.

On the rare occasion I'm in a campground with electricity or when on my driveway, I use a 600W fan forced electric heater fed through a baseboard thermostate (designed for the load). Even down to the teens, it cycles on/off holding the camper a nice 76*.

Others have better pics, but to show you my confidence, here is a pic of my daughter and me on a snow run to NC. We drove 300 miles to get into the snow and hoped for a campsite with power, but wasn't worried as was confident we could boondock in a parking lot comfortably enough. Temps were down to about 20* during the night as the snow turned to freezing rain with only a slight breeze. Was surprised to find the outside coated in 1/2" ice though the inside was kept warm at 70*.

2015 Ram 3500 4x4 Crew Cab SRW 6.4 Hemi LB 3.73 (12.4 hand calc avg mpg after 92,000 miles with camper)
2004 Lance 815 (prev: 2004 FW 35'; 1994 TT 30'; Tents)

udp8
Explorer
Explorer
Lots of good advice, thanks everyone!

On the propane furnace side of things (when dry camping), how well do they heat your rig on cold days? And how long before your tank(s) need to be refilled?

What's the cost of a refill these days anyway?

time2roll
Nomad
Nomad
udp8 wrote:
What's the difference between the onboard furnace and a portable plugin electric space heater?

Maybe a noobie question, but is it possible to generate enough power offgrid for a space heater? What is needed? Would be great if gas powered generator wasn't the only answer to that question. Can wind + solar get you close?

Space heater converts electric to heat. This takes a tremendous amount of electricity. You would need 4kW to 6kW of solar panels tilted to the winter sun.

Furnace uses propane for the heat and a good amount of battery power to run the blower. You may still need to be plugged in. Possible for solar to keep the battery charged in favorable conditions but you will still need 200 to 400 watts of panels and 2 to 4 batteries.

kohldad
Explorer III
Explorer III
I have a Lance-Lite 815. The "-Lite" means it has thinner walls and less amenities to reduce weight. With thinner walls, less room for insulation.

I don't have thermal windows, but for winter I do have foam boards I put in the windows in the cabover and acrylic panes I put in the windows by the dinette. While not as good as thermal pane windows, the acrylic makes a noticeable difference and much more comfortable.

Some better campers would be the four season campers. These include Bigfoot, Northern-Lite, Adventurer and others. Even the newer Lance (non-Lite) campers are much better.

Usually, when boondocking, I usually drive around during the day to recharge my batteries, combined with I don't have TV, radio or other electrical devices, so my single battery without solar works well. If you plan on staying put for several days or want to watch TV or run small electrical appliances with an inverter, you should look for units with dual batteries and possibly even some solar.
2015 Ram 3500 4x4 Crew Cab SRW 6.4 Hemi LB 3.73 (12.4 hand calc avg mpg after 92,000 miles with camper)
2004 Lance 815 (prev: 2004 FW 35'; 1994 TT 30'; Tents)

deltabravo
Nomad
Nomad
udp8 wrote:


Maybe a noobie question, but is it possible to generate enough power offgrid for a space heater? What is needed? Would be great if gas powered generator wasn't the only answer to that question. Can wind + solar get you close?


It's not, unless you tow a trailer full of batteries with 1000 watts of solar on he roof.

Wind, not close either, nor is wind+solar.

It's far cheaper to use a portable generator, though it can be a nuisance dealing with it if you are living in the camper full time and moving a lot.
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator

deltabravo
Nomad
Nomad
Thermal Pane windows make a big difference in the noise reduction and heat/AC in my AF 811. I added them after the fact, but still haven't upgraded the cabover windows.

I would highly recommend thermal pane windows, often times they need to be ordered - most dealers rarely stock a camper with them.
2009 Silverado 3500HD Dually, D/A, CCLB 4x4 (bought new 8/30/09)
2018 Arctic Fox 992 with an Onan 2500i "quiet" model generator

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi,

There are a few rv'ers who have enough solar to run an electric heater for long. Wind is inconsistent and fairly noisy.

The advantage of running electric heaters is that often electricity is included in the campground fee. Therefore, in some senses, it is free. The costs for propane come out of your wallet over and above camping fees.

It is lots cheaper to run the furnace than to run a generator to operate an electric heater. However, if the generator is being run to recharge a battery bank, it is not a bad idea to run an electric heater at the same time, if the generator is big enough to support both.

When I was a weekend warrior I could manage one night of electric heat before I needed to plug in to recharge. Now that I'm full time I tend to only use electric heat if I have access to shore power.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

azrving
Explorer
Explorer
On board furnace runs on propane but often has a circuit board and 2 fans. One fan to blow the exhaust out and another to circulate the hot air inside the rig. They often draw about 5 or 6 amps.

120 volt electric space heaters can be bought for $20.00 or so but you have to be plugged in or running a generator. Many electric space heaters use about 1200 watts or so. 1200 watts divided by 120 volts = 10 amps. A Honda 2000 will carry about 15 amps max.

It can be run on solar but it's not practical as you run out of room for batteries and panels. I dont know the figures right off but running a generator is probably about 10 or 15 times as expensive as plugging into the grid. Just a guesstimate from what people have posted.

To me, rv equals moderate climate and moving with the seasons.

udp8
Explorer
Explorer
What's the difference between the onboard furnace and a portable plugin electric space heater?

Maybe a noobie question, but is it possible to generate enough power offgrid for a space heater? What is needed? Would be great if gas powered generator wasn't the only answer to that question. Can wind + solar get you close?

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
Hi,

Don't get one that is "too smart". If it has a computerized temperature control the least little power "blip" will turn it off. Look for one with a mechanical thermostat instead.

I prefer the space heater, too!

deltabravo wrote:
I ought to look for a smarter heater tomorrow at Wal-Mart when I'm there.

My preference is to run an electric space heater when I'm plugged in, rather than the propane furnace.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.