A tale of two trailers, or prices are thru the roof.

[Brandon_the_Tra]

In 2018 I requested pricing for a Rockwood Travel Trailer from RVW and stumbled upon the email / quote they sent back yesterday.

Out of curiosity, I requested pricing last evening on the same exact model, with the same options, and received it earlier today.

2018 for a 2019 = $23,980.00
2021 for a 2022 = $41,700.00

How about an increase of %42 for what amounts to the same exact thing? That is unless you take into consideration that it has to be ordered, the build date will not be "confirmed", but the "estimate" is 12 to 16 weeks. Then add in their are claims that anything being built in Indiana right now, and for the foreseeable future, is exceptionally shitty. It's supposedly way worse in the build quality dept than prior to the pandemic, which seems hard to do. And that's coming from dealers.

[Cortttt]

Brandon the Traveler wrote:

1320Fastback wrote:
We paid MSRP for our new Toyota Rav a few months ago. There is no haggling anymore.

Maybe, maybe not. The Ford dealer where we're ordering an F350 was a pleasant surprise when we were discussing price and they offered up a substantial discount from MSRP on their own. I asked the GM what he thought about some local dealers around the area tacking on what they call market surcharges or GFY pricing. He stated that's not the way they do business, they're still turning profit on the sale. Folks are fools who go in and unrealistically haggle expecting a dealer to sell at a loss.

Those types of dealers are almost impossible to find. I knew of another who was bought out by a mega dealer, which resulted in the instant elimination fair pricing as well as the elimination of a good chunk of previous customers.


What I am seeing with RVs is price gouging and it's not so much the dealers as it's starting at the manufacturer level. Those guys are not your friend nor will they ever be. It's a one of a kind special industry and always has been Now its on steroids. Hopefully energy costs, runaway inflation, etc soon slams the brakes on the party. It can't happen to a nicer load of crooks. When that happens the values are going to drop 3 times as fast as they increased, and all these folks buying them like hotcakes while financing them for 120, 180, 240 months are going to be left holding the bag.

Good to hear about Ford! I actually just went to a GM dealer regarding a 3500 and they were below MSRP - so not everyone is doing that.

[wing_zealot]

Hum, it was only a 5 word sentence and I’m still talking over his head.

[Grit_dog]

wing_zealot wrote:
What is a "Debt Bubble"?

Can I get "Ways to look up something you don't understand", for $200 Alex?"

(Sorry, whoever is hosting it this week...)

"What is Goooogle it?"

[Grit_dog]

wing_zealot wrote:

MattFromPA wrote:
Many who find themselves deep underwater won't be able to get enough on the resale to cover the note.

You're assuming they will want to sell them. What if they just keep them for 10 or 20 years?
The last one I bought, I kept for 12 years; long after it was paid off. The one I have now I plan on keeping for the rest of my life - statiscally, another 20 years.

Good for you...
And you're refuting him by assuming most will keep their pandemic purchased camper and become life long RVers..... kinda the same thing but different, no?

Or is this just big stretch of an overtly hypothetical "what if" that is so popular on rvnet.

[wing_zealot]

MattFromPA wrote:
Many who find themselves deep underwater won't be able to get enough on the resale to cover the note.

You're assuming they will want to sell them. What if they just keep them for 10 or 20 years?
The last one I bought, I kept for 12 years; long after it was paid off. The one I have now I plan on keeping for the rest of my life - statiscally, another 20 years.

[wing_zealot]

What is a "Debt Bubble"?

[MattFromPA]

propchef wrote:

MattFromPA wrote:

When interest rates go up the party will be over. Many borrow to acquire their RV's and money has never been cheaper. The industry is going to crater. When it does I'd like to swoop in on a deal. Problem is, covid campers are always going to be junk. Many who find themselves deep underwater won't be able to get enough on the resale to cover the note. We'll start seeing lightly used units more and more this winter but I think the gates will open in late 2022. By then those that bought on impulse in 2020 (and learned it isn't for them) will finally give in and sell, eating the difference owed if necessary. At least water damage will be easier to detect by then.

^^^yup.

However, little things like thousands of canceled flights (and fights on planes!) will continue to fuel RV sales. When the airlines and cruise industry come back to full strength I think then you'll see a turn-around in the RV industry.

I think most RV'ers are weekend warriors. At least that's my observation. I fly for long vacations and use the TT for weekends and the two do not mix for me. I don't have time to drive cross-country for one thing. Anyway, when the debt bubble bursts its going to create bargain shopping for some and extreme pain for those that bought RVs and trucks at the peak.

[falconbrother]

I bought my TT in 2017. The same model in 2021 is twice the price...twice.. Crazy prices..

[propchef]

MattFromPA wrote:

Brandon the Traveler wrote:

What I am seeing with RVs is price gouging and it's not so much the dealers as it's starting at the manufacturer level. Those guys are not your friend nor will they ever be. It's a one of a kind special industry and always has been Now its on steroids. Hopefully energy costs, runaway inflation, etc soon slams the brakes on the party. It can't happen to a nicer load of crooks. When that happens the values are going to drop 3 times as fast as they increased, and all these folks buying them like hotcakes while financing them for 120, 180, 240 months are going to be left holding the bag.

When interest rates go up the party will be over. Many borrow to acquire their RV's and money has never been cheaper. The industry is going to crater. When it does I'd like to swoop in on a deal. Problem is, covid campers are always going to be junk. Many who find themselves deep underwater won't be able to get enough on the resale to cover the note. We'll start seeing lightly used units more and more this winter but I think the gates will open in late 2022. By then those that bought on impulse in 2020 (and learned it isn't for them) will finally give in and sell, eating the difference owed if necessary. At least water damage will be easier to detect by then.

^^^yup.

However, little things like thousands of canceled flights (and fights on planes!) will continue to fuel RV sales. When the airlines and cruise industry come back to full strength I think then you'll see a turn-around in the RV industry.

[MattFromPA]

Brandon the Traveler wrote:

What I am seeing with RVs is price gouging and it's not so much the dealers as it's starting at the manufacturer level. Those guys are not your friend nor will they ever be. It's a one of a kind special industry and always has been Now its on steroids. Hopefully energy costs, runaway inflation, etc soon slams the brakes on the party. It can't happen to a nicer load of crooks. When that happens the values are going to drop 3 times as fast as they increased, and all these folks buying them like hotcakes while financing them for 120, 180, 240 months are going to be left holding the bag.

When interest rates go up the party will be over. Many borrow to acquire their RV's and money has never been cheaper. The industry is going to crater. When it does I'd like to swoop in on a deal. Problem is, covid campers are always going to be junk. Many who find themselves deep underwater won't be able to get enough on the resale to cover the note. We'll start seeing lightly used units more and more this winter but I think the gates will open in late 2022. By then those that bought on impulse in 2020 (and learned it isn't for them) will finally give in and sell, eating the difference owed if necessary. At least water damage will be easier to detect by then.

[Timmo_]

CavemanCharlie wrote:

jffnkrn wrote:
Timmo!, yeah we have 1550 square foot, small and perfect for the two of us. large yard with all the amenities for our RV, parking on both sides of the house, one side for rv including water, sewer and electric, the other side small shop and of course couldn't have it any nicer. we bought at the bottom of the recent downturn, put about $60 into it and rebuilt it to what we wanted and now enjoy it while we are here and also enjoy our traveling home too!. But yet I agree, I could get well over $300 for it, but would only have to pay about $450 to get what we have.

I am happy with my smaller home and Travel Trailer. I don't understand this thing where everything has to be Bigger and Bigger. One of the biggest problems I've always had with buying a newer Travel Trailer is finding on that is of modest size.

Some of us entertain clients & friends in our home (large dining area), have family and friends stay over (spare bedrooms) and work from home (office and shop space). So in my world, a 4 bedroom house for my wife and I works perfectly--as we are a "destination" for many peeps.

We just stole our current rural home a few months ago: 2.25% interest on VA loan for 2+ acre parcel, with a 2100 sft house, plus big garage and shop, and (drum roll please) our property line includes river frontage. Across the river is the federal forest (no neighbors), and since the rivers in southern Oregon are renown for trout fishing....guess who can eat fresh fish weekly? Hard to find a home that's under 2000 sft that has both acreage and river frontage.

These are the reasons why we live in a "bigger" home.

[CavemanCharlie]

jffnkrn wrote:
Timmo!, yeah we have 1550 square foot, small and perfect for the two of us. large yard with all the amenities for our RV, parking on both sides of the house, one side for rv including water, sewer and electric, the other side small shop and of course couldn't have it any nicer. we bought at the bottom of the recent downturn, put about $60 into it and rebuilt it to what we wanted and now enjoy it while we are here and also enjoy our traveling home too!. But yet I agree, I could get well over $300 for it, but would only have to pay about $450 to get what we have.

I am happy with my smaller home and Travel Trailer. I don't understand this thing where everything has to be Bigger and Bigger. One of the biggest problems I've always had with buying a newer Travel Trailer is finding on that is of modest size.

[jffnkrn]

Timmo!, yeah we have 1550 square foot, small and perfect for the two of us. large yard with all the amenities for our RV, parking on both sides of the house, one side for rv including water, sewer and electric, the other side small shop and of course couldn't have it any nicer. we bought at the bottom of the recent downturn, put about $60 into it and rebuilt it to what we wanted and now enjoy it while we are here and also enjoy our traveling home too!. But yet I agree, I could get well over $300 for it, but would only have to pay about $450 to get what we have.

[Timmo_]

jffnkrn wrote:
What do you mean when will an rv cost the same as a home?
We paid 70K for our home at the bottom in 2012, we bought our full size fifth wheel, fall of 2019, $55K. there are a multitude of rv's out there well over 100K. 🙂

LOL, I never considered a "shotgun shack" to be a "modest home". But then one's "modesty" can easily be another person's "luxury".

Today's cost to build a home is $100-150 per square foot...could not imagine living in a home that's less than 2,000 square feet. Hard to say what $70k will buy you today.

For kicks and giggles, how 'bout a million dollar RV, complete with spa?
https://mhsrv.com/luxury-rvs/?is_sold=0&condition=1&price_low=250000&sort=price&direction=desc

Now we're talking! LOL.