Anti-Sway Bars with 30+ ft. TT and 1-ton Truck

[otrfun]

Current TV is a '16 3500 SRW Cummins. Our last trailer was a 12k loaded, 33 ft. 5th wheel toy hauler. Towed like a dream, even in very heavy side-winds. No more toys so we sold it. For a number of reasons, we're thinking about purchasing a 8k (empty), 10k (loaded) 30-32 ft. bumper-pull TT. Assuming sufficient tongue weight (10-15 percent), have folks found any need for anti-sway bars towing longer TT's (30+ ft.) with their heavier, HD trucks? Never had any sway issues towing 20-25 ft. TT's (without anti-sway bars) with our previous 1/2-ton truck. Thanks!

[moresmoke]

I think someone upset the apple cart here... With the numbers being thrown around, the OP has no need for WD on this combo. The problem is the sway due to the shape and the nature of the weight of a TT.

You can put a skid steer on a bumper pull trailer, (which by the way the manufacturers also anticipate when designing a truck) put a well paid landscape grunt behind the wheel and send him down the road without any worries. How many equipment trailers use a WD hitch? I've seen a few but not many. The difference is that there is no sail effect, and the load is all concentrated in one spot. A TT the weight is spread over the length. This creates a larger rotational moment. Once the TT starts to swing from one side to the other, it takes a larger force to stop it than the equivalent weight equipment trailer with the load near the center.

With that 1200 lb tounge weight, you will still have north of 4000 lb on the front axle.

So as a few of us have said here, sway control is desired, WD is not needed, but the easiest way to get sway control may be to use a WDH.

As a side note, a couple months ago, I loaded a couple tractors on my gooseneck, I had to load them a certain way to get them to fit. Those who say a fifth wheel/gooseneck cannot sway are wrong. That thing swayed horribly, but I had unintentionally put 4000 lb right on the back of the trailer.

[Huntindog]

otrfun wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

otrfun wrote:

ScottG wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

What you said may very well be true with some applications, but I respectfully disagree in terms of my application.

FWIW, I've placed 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight on my 3500 Cummins SRW. The frame dropped approx. 1" in relation to the rear axle. With 3,000 lbs. it drops approx. 3". Total suspension travel is 5.25 inches. Clearly excessive suspension travel (i.e., the 2+ inches you mentioned) is not an issue in my application.

But, more to the point: If I were to install and use a WDH with 1,000 - 1,200 lb. bars on my 3500 Cummins SRW (with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight) it would in effect move (more or less) 400-600 lbs. more weight to the front axle and place 600-800 lbs. on the rear axle. At that point I would have approx. 5200-5400 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 3600-3800 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---roughly a 59/41 distribution. FYI, this would also place the truck within 600-800 lbs. of the FAWR and 3200-3400 lbs. of the RAWR. Clearly (in this scenario) the front axle is being stressed significantly more than the rear.

With 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight and NO weight distribution hitch, I would have approx. 4,700 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 4,300 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---a 52/48 distribution---a much more equal distribution of weight and axle stress.

Can you explain to me what's safer about a 59/41 distribution of weight vs. 52/48?

One thing that is wrong.... You are pulling figures out of the sky.

In all likely hood, your TW will be more than you are thinking, and your weight returned to the FA will be less.
Also, you seem to think (going by your imaginary numbers) that your FA will be supporting the same, or slightly more weight when hitched up without WD than it is when not hitched up. This is a false assumption.
When you drop 1400# of non WD weight on the ball.....Your FA WILL get lighter. This has NOTHING to do with how much the rear sags.

This leads me to the second thing that is wrong. You are making a common mistake on just how and where WD moves the weight.

A decent amount of the weight gets transferred to the TT axles.
And a decent amount gets transferred to the TV FA.

As for how much goes where.... It will vary a bit because of differences in just where the axles are located. With a tape measure and some math calculations with accurate real life weights, it can be figured out. But it is simpler to just weigh it. Let me assure you, that no where near 600# will go to the TV FA

FWIW. I have a one ton dually CC diesel as well.
I can tell the difference in handling when the EQUALIZER hitch adjustment is moved one hole, or one washer.
Maybe you are not as particular as I am about dialing it in. But I believe that doing so makes for a better towing experience. Especially for those times that something unexpected happens on the road.
IOW... Can you? Yes. Should you? NO.

My numbers and assumptions are no more out of the sky than yours. My numbers are based on a score of CAT scale tickets I've acquired with various trucks I've used WDH's on.

The empty tongue weight on the TT I based this scenario on is 850 lbs. It's perfectly reasonable to assume it may increase to 1,200 lbs. when loaded. Yes, it could be even higher, but that's unlikely.

You nit-picked my numbers which I clearly stated are approximate. Bottom line you failed to address my basic premise: with 1.200 lbs. of tongue weight (on my 3500 SRW) the weight on my front and rear axles will be more equally distributed without using a WDH. Even adjusting the numbers as you suggested this would still be true.

Someone who has many CAT scale tickets with WD SHOULD know how much weight is getting transferred, and to where.

Clearly, you did not know, or you would not have made the silly statement that WD could add 600# to your front axle, with a 1000-1200# TW.

So either you do not know how to read CAT tickets, or don't have a score of them.

Again, you're missing the big picture and focusing on side issues that are not directly pertinent to the main point:

You will get better weight distribution with 1200 lbs. of tongue weight on a '16 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins if you do not use WDH.

Feel free to refute this.

Sure thing, and as at least one other has taken your side about the HEAVY cummins vs, the lighter weight motors available...

Are you planning to change your front springs?

They are sized for the designed load.
The RAM parts website lists different springs for each configuration.

So not using WD to give you better (in your eyes) WD, will just mess up the way your truck was designed.... AND Ram like all other manufacturers expect that WD will be used with heavy ball pull TW trailers..

Of course your mind was made up from the get go.
It doesn't matter to you if it will perform better with WD or not.

AS I said earlier, some are not interested in dialing in a setup to be the best it can be..
Different strokes for different folks.
Some people are thrilled to jump out of perfectly good airplanes. And some are happy just to roll down the road with a TT in tow, no matter how poorly it does.

[otrfun]

Huntindog wrote:

otrfun wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

otrfun wrote:

ScottG wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

What you said may very well be true with some applications, but I respectfully disagree in terms of my application.

FWIW, I've placed 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight on my 3500 Cummins SRW. The frame dropped approx. 1" in relation to the rear axle. With 3,000 lbs. it drops approx. 3". Total suspension travel is 5.25 inches. Clearly excessive suspension travel (i.e., the 2+ inches you mentioned) is not an issue in my application.

But, more to the point: If I were to install and use a WDH with 1,000 - 1,200 lb. bars on my 3500 Cummins SRW (with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight) it would in effect move (more or less) 400-600 lbs. more weight to the front axle and place 600-800 lbs. on the rear axle. At that point I would have approx. 5200-5400 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 3600-3800 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---roughly a 59/41 distribution. FYI, this would also place the truck within 600-800 lbs. of the FAWR and 3200-3400 lbs. of the RAWR. Clearly (in this scenario) the front axle is being stressed significantly more than the rear.

With 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight and NO weight distribution hitch, I would have approx. 4,700 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 4,300 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---a 52/48 distribution---a much more equal distribution of weight and axle stress.

Can you explain to me what's safer about a 59/41 distribution of weight vs. 52/48?

One thing that is wrong.... You are pulling figures out of the sky.

In all likely hood, your TW will be more than you are thinking, and your weight returned to the FA will be less.
Also, you seem to think (going by your imaginary numbers) that your FA will be supporting the same, or slightly more weight when hitched up without WD than it is when not hitched up. This is a false assumption.
When you drop 1400# of non WD weight on the ball.....Your FA WILL get lighter. This has NOTHING to do with how much the rear sags.

This leads me to the second thing that is wrong. You are making a common mistake on just how and where WD moves the weight.

A decent amount of the weight gets transferred to the TT axles.
And a decent amount gets transferred to the TV FA.

As for how much goes where.... It will vary a bit because of differences in just where the axles are located. With a tape measure and some math calculations with accurate real life weights, it can be figured out. But it is simpler to just weigh it. Let me assure you, that no where near 600# will go to the TV FA

FWIW. I have a one ton dually CC diesel as well.
I can tell the difference in handling when the EQUALIZER hitch adjustment is moved one hole, or one washer.
Maybe you are not as particular as I am about dialing it in. But I believe that doing so makes for a better towing experience. Especially for those times that something unexpected happens on the road.
IOW... Can you? Yes. Should you? NO.

My numbers and assumptions are no more out of the sky than yours. My numbers are based on a score of CAT scale tickets I've acquired with various trucks I've used WDH's on.

The empty tongue weight on the TT I based this scenario on is 850 lbs. It's perfectly reasonable to assume it may increase to 1,200 lbs. when loaded. Yes, it could be even higher, but that's unlikely.

You nit-picked my numbers which I clearly stated are approximate. Bottom line you failed to address my basic premise: with 1.200 lbs. of tongue weight (on my 3500 SRW) the weight on my front and rear axles will be more equally distributed without using a WDH. Even adjusting the numbers as you suggested this would still be true.

Someone who has many CAT scale tickets with WD SHOULD know how much weight is getting transferred, and to where.

Clearly, you did not know, or you would not have made the silly statement that WD could add 600# to your front axle, with a 1000-1200# TW.

So either you do not know how to read CAT tickets, or don't have a score of them.

Again, you're missing the big picture and focusing on side issues that are not directly pertinent to the main point:

You will get better weight distribution with 1200 lbs. of tongue weight on a '16 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins if you do not use WDH.

Feel free to refute this.

[Huntindog]

otrfun wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

otrfun wrote:

ScottG wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

What you said may very well be true with some applications, but I respectfully disagree in terms of my application.

FWIW, I've placed 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight on my 3500 Cummins SRW. The frame dropped approx. 1" in relation to the rear axle. With 3,000 lbs. it drops approx. 3". Total suspension travel is 5.25 inches. Clearly excessive suspension travel (i.e., the 2+ inches you mentioned) is not an issue in my application.

But, more to the point: If I were to install and use a WDH with 1,000 - 1,200 lb. bars on my 3500 Cummins SRW (with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight) it would in effect move (more or less) 400-600 lbs. more weight to the front axle and place 600-800 lbs. on the rear axle. At that point I would have approx. 5200-5400 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 3600-3800 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---roughly a 59/41 distribution. FYI, this would also place the truck within 600-800 lbs. of the FAWR and 3200-3400 lbs. of the RAWR. Clearly (in this scenario) the front axle is being stressed significantly more than the rear.

With 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight and NO weight distribution hitch, I would have approx. 4,700 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 4,300 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---a 52/48 distribution---a much more equal distribution of weight and axle stress.

Can you explain to me what's safer about a 59/41 distribution of weight vs. 52/48?

One thing that is wrong.... You are pulling figures out of the sky.

In all likely hood, your TW will be more than you are thinking, and your weight returned to the FA will be less.
Also, you seem to think (going by your imaginary numbers) that your FA will be supporting the same, or slightly more weight when hitched up without WD than it is when not hitched up. This is a false assumption.
When you drop 1400# of non WD weight on the ball.....Your FA WILL get lighter. This has NOTHING to do with how much the rear sags.

This leads me to the second thing that is wrong. You are making a common mistake on just how and where WD moves the weight.

A decent amount of the weight gets transferred to the TT axles.
And a decent amount gets transferred to the TV FA.

As for how much goes where.... It will vary a bit because of differences in just where the axles are located. With a tape measure and some math calculations with accurate real life weights, it can be figured out. But it is simpler to just weigh it. Let me assure you, that no where near 600# will go to the TV FA

FWIW. I have a one ton dually CC diesel as well.
I can tell the difference in handling when the EQUALIZER hitch adjustment is moved one hole, or one washer.
Maybe you are not as particular as I am about dialing it in. But I believe that doing so makes for a better towing experience. Especially for those times that something unexpected happens on the road.
IOW... Can you? Yes. Should you? NO.

My numbers and assumptions are no more out of the sky than yours. My numbers are based on a score of CAT scale tickets I've acquired with various trucks I've used WDH's on.

The empty tongue weight on the TT I based this scenario on is 850 lbs. It's perfectly reasonable to assume it may increase to 1,200 lbs. when loaded. Yes, it could be even higher, but that's unlikely.

You nit-picked my numbers which I clearly stated are approximate. Bottom line you failed to address my basic premise: with 1.200 lbs. of tongue weight (on my 3500 SRW) the weight on my front and rear axles will be more equally distributed without using a WDH. Even adjusting the numbers as you suggested this would still be true.

Someone who has many CAT scale tickets with WD SHOULD know how much weight is getting transferred, and to where.

Clearly, you did not know, or you would not have made the silly statement that WD could add 600# to your front axle, with a 1000-1200# TW.

So either you do not know how to read CAT tickets, or don't have a score of them.

[IdaD]

My thing on the WDH is even with the trailer attached, OPs truck will still have more front axle weight than a 6.4 Ram with no trailer. It just doesn't seem to me that any of the adverse issues you can run into with too much weight off the front end would apply in this particular case. The friction bars I could see needing or wanting but that's all about sway.

[aftermath]

...."My numbers and assumptions are no more out of the sky than yours. My numbers are based on a score of CAT scale tickets I've acquired with various trucks I've used WDH's on.

The empty tongue weight on the TT I based this scenario on is 850 lbs. It's perfectly reasonable to assume it may increase to 1,200 lbs. when loaded. Yes, it could be even higher, but that's unlikely.

You nit-picked my numbers which I clearly stated are approximate. Bottom line you failed to address my basic premise: with 1.200 lbs. of tongue weight (on my 3500 SRW) the weight on my front and rear axles will be more equally distributed without using a WDH. Even adjusting the numbers as you suggested this would still be true."

The function of a WDH is to return weight to the front axle. If your truck is able to "equally distribute" this weight without a WDH then you should be good to go. Don't tell the WDH manufacturers this though. They will soon be out of business.

[Community Alumni]

You definitely want some form of sway control. Murphy also has a tendency to strike even the big trucks towing little trailers. Those combos can also end up in a ditch as well. It's amazing how a small amount of weight moving in the wrong direction can completely unsettle a combination vehicle.

The requirement for a WDH is based primarily on vehicle requirements and the weight carrying capacity of the hitch. If the vehicle requires one or tongue weight is approaching the weight carrying capacity of the hitch then it would probably be best to go ahead and get one. Just like lots of things, the more you use something near its capacity the shorter its useful life.

Although you may be in a situation where one isn't required, that's not same as saying one wouldn't provide a benefit. LTs aren't required on 1/2 tons to tow at their rated capacity, but they provide a substantial benefit over their P metric counterparts. My own personal experience with on the ball vs WDH, in quite a few different combos, echos the above poster's experience. It does provide assistance in the handling department even in a DRW. Especially when vehicles larger than you pass and when the wind decides to stop playing nice. For me, I've never had a good reason to not use one.

[otrfun]

sbergherr wrote:
. . . Why ask a question, if you already knew the answer??? . . .

The question I asked pertained to the use/need of anti-sway while towing a longer 30+ ft. TT with a 1-ton truck. The general consensus seems to recommend the use of anti-sway. No problems with that.

As for the use of a WDH on a '16 3500 SRW with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight, I am of the opinion that one is not needed. Some opine they are needed. That's ok, too.

[sbergherr]

We tow our 32 foot TT with a SRW 1 TON as well....I also use a WDH which we bought for 300$ at the dealer. Uses friction bars for weight distribution/anti sway. The trailer along with the diesel truck tows like a dream and can easily tow with one hand eating a sandwich, on a windy day, with big rigs blowing by us. Why ask a question, if you already knew the answer??? I don't think I would hitch it up to tow down the freeway without it. The last big trip we took we actually witnessed a 32' trailer sway out of control and then roll over. Trailer had no WDH and was being towed by a 3/4 pickup. It could have had 0 TW, could have been driver error, either way. They are fairly inexpensive for piece of mind. Just my 2 cents

[otrfun]

Huntindog wrote:

otrfun wrote:

ScottG wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

What you said may very well be true with some applications, but I respectfully disagree in terms of my application.

FWIW, I've placed 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight on my 3500 Cummins SRW. The frame dropped approx. 1" in relation to the rear axle. With 3,000 lbs. it drops approx. 3". Total suspension travel is 5.25 inches. Clearly excessive suspension travel (i.e., the 2+ inches you mentioned) is not an issue in my application.

But, more to the point: If I were to install and use a WDH with 1,000 - 1,200 lb. bars on my 3500 Cummins SRW (with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight) it would in effect move (more or less) 400-600 lbs. more weight to the front axle and place 600-800 lbs. on the rear axle. At that point I would have approx. 5200-5400 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 3600-3800 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---roughly a 59/41 distribution. FYI, this would also place the truck within 600-800 lbs. of the FAWR and 3200-3400 lbs. of the RAWR. Clearly (in this scenario) the front axle is being stressed significantly more than the rear.

With 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight and NO weight distribution hitch, I would have approx. 4,700 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 4,300 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---a 52/48 distribution---a much more equal distribution of weight and axle stress.

Can you explain to me what's safer about a 59/41 distribution of weight vs. 52/48?

One thing that is wrong.... You are pulling figures out of the sky.

In all likely hood, your TW will be more than you are thinking, and your weight returned to the FA will be less.
Also, you seem to think (going by your imaginary numbers) that your FA will be supporting the same, or slightly more weight when hitched up without WD than it is when not hitched up. This is a false assumption.
When you drop 1400# of non WD weight on the ball.....Your FA WILL get lighter. This has NOTHING to do with how much the rear sags.

This leads me to the second thing that is wrong. You are making a common mistake on just how and where WD moves the weight.

A decent amount of the weight gets transferred to the TT axles.
And a decent amount gets transferred to the TV FA.

As for how much goes where.... It will vary a bit because of differences in just where the axles are located. With a tape measure and some math calculations with accurate real life weights, it can be figured out. But it is simpler to just weigh it. Let me assure you, that no where near 600# will go to the TV FA

FWIW. I have a one ton dually CC diesel as well.
I can tell the difference in handling when the EQUALIZER hitch adjustment is moved one hole, or one washer.
Maybe you are not as particular as I am about dialing it in. But I believe that doing so makes for a better towing experience. Especially for those times that something unexpected happens on the road.
IOW... Can you? Yes. Should you? NO.

My numbers and assumptions are no more out of the sky than yours. My numbers are based on a score of CAT scale tickets I've acquired with various trucks I've used WDH's on.

The empty tongue weight on the TT I based this scenario on is 850 lbs. It's perfectly reasonable to assume it may increase to 1,200 lbs. when loaded. Yes, it could be even higher, but that's unlikely.

You nit-picked my numbers which I clearly stated are approximate. Bottom line you failed to address my basic premise: with 1.200 lbs. of tongue weight (on my 3500 SRW) the weight on my front and rear axles will be more equally distributed without using a WDH. Even adjusting the numbers as you suggested this would still be true.

[moresmoke]

1100 lb of tounge weight will take 220 lb off the front axle of a CCLB. Now if you encounter strong winds, the trailer will push the back of your truck around. I have 1 friction bar on a 28 foot trailer and am not happy with it. Some of it has to do with trailer design also. My mom has a slightly smaller TT and it tows like a dream compared to mine.

[Huntindog]

otrfun wrote:

ScottG wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

What you said may very well be true with some applications, but I respectfully disagree in terms of my application.

FWIW, I've placed 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight on my 3500 Cummins SRW. The frame dropped approx. 1" in relation to the rear axle. With 3,000 lbs. it drops approx. 3". Total suspension travel is 5.25 inches. Clearly excessive suspension travel (i.e., the 2+ inches you mentioned) is not an issue in my application.

But, more to the point: If I were to install and use a WDH with 1,000 - 1,200 lb. bars on my 3500 Cummins SRW (with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight) it would in effect move (more or less) 400-600 lbs. more weight to the front axle and place 600-800 lbs. on the rear axle. At that point I would have approx. 5200-5400 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 3600-3800 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---roughly a 59/41 distribution. FYI, this would also place the truck within 600-800 lbs. of the FAWR and 3200-3400 lbs. of the RAWR. Clearly (in this scenario) the front axle is being stressed significantly more than the rear.

With 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight and NO weight distribution hitch, I would have approx. 4,700 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 4,300 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---a 52/48 distribution---a much more equal distribution of weight and axle stress.

Can you explain to me what's safer about a 59/41 distribution of weight vs. 52/48?

One thing that is wrong.... You are pulling figures out of the sky.

In all likely hood, your TW will be more than you are thinking, and your weight returned to the FA will be less.
Also, you seem to think (going by your imaginary numbers) that your FA will be supporting the same, or slightly more weight when hitched up without WD than it is when not hitched up. This is a false assumption.
When you drop 1400# of non WD weight on the ball.....Your FA WILL get lighter. This has NOTHING to do with how much the rear sags.

This leads me to the second thing that is wrong. You are making a common mistake on just how and where WD moves the weight.

A decent amount of the weight gets transferred to the TT axles.
And a decent amount gets transferred to the TV FA.

As for how much goes where.... It will vary a bit because of differences in just where the axles are located. With a tape measure and some math calculations with accurate real life weights, it can be figured out. But it is simpler to just weigh it. Let me assure you, that no where near 600# will go to the TV FA

FWIW. I have a one ton dually CC diesel as well.
I can tell the difference in handling when the EQUALIZER hitch adjustment is moved one hole, or one washer.
Maybe you are not as particular as I am about dialing it in. But I believe that doing so makes for a better towing experience. Especially for those times that something unexpected happens on the road.
IOW... Can you? Yes. Should you? NO.

[otrfun]

ScottG wrote:

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

What you said may very well be true with some applications, but I respectfully disagree in terms of my application.

FWIW, I've placed 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight on my 3500 Cummins SRW. The frame dropped approx. 1" in relation to the rear axle. With 3,000 lbs. it drops approx. 3". Total suspension travel is 5.25 inches. Clearly excessive suspension travel (i.e., the 2+ inches you mentioned) is not an issue in my application.

But, more to the point: If I were to install and use a WDH with 1,000 - 1,200 lb. bars on my 3500 Cummins SRW (with 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight) it would in effect move (more or less) 400-600 lbs. more weight to the front axle and place 600-800 lbs. on the rear axle. At that point I would have approx. 5200-5400 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 3600-3800 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---roughly a 59/41 distribution. FYI, this would also place the truck within 600-800 lbs. of the FAWR and 3200-3400 lbs. of the RAWR. Clearly (in this scenario) the front axle is being stressed significantly more than the rear.

With 1,200 lbs. of tongue weight and NO weight distribution hitch, I would have approx. 4,700 lbs. of weight on my front axle and 4,300 lbs. of weight on my rear axle---a 52/48 distribution---a much more equal distribution of weight and axle stress.

Can you explain to me what's safer about a 59/41 distribution of weight vs. 52/48?

[ScottG]

otrfun wrote:
Appreciate off the replies!

Once we purchase a trailer we'll probably try it with just the ball as IdaD suggested. I don't anticipate any significant issues, but I'm getting the impression from everyone that some anti-sway control would be a good idea.

I haven't done a lot of research, but it seems most anti-sway setups work in conjunction with a WDH (weight distribution hitch). Are there any simple anti-sway solutions that don't involve the use of a WDH?

Agree WDH's are extremely effective in situations where the tongue weight of a TT may be approaching the limits of a truck's RAWR. Distributing some of that weight with a WDH to the front axle reduces stress on the rear axle, reduces sag, and improves handling.

However, our 3500 has 4,000 lbs. of payload. Based on the 3500's RAWR and FAWR, that full 4,000 lbs. of payload capacity is available on the rear axle and only 1,200 lbs. on the front axle (that Cummins is heavy--lol!). I'd prefer to keep all of the 1,000 - 1,200 lbs. of anticipated tongue weight on the rear axle by not using a WDH. With 2,800 - 3,000 lbs. of remaining payload on the rear axle, rear axle stress and sag are not a concern for us.

Thanks!

WDH aren't just needed by truck approaching max axle weights. I have "tons" of capacity left as well.
What you are going to run into is terrible or even dangerous handling. You will also find that the first 2+ of inches of suspension travel is quickly taken up because it's softer for a decent ride. Your back end is going to sink and the front will be unloaded.
You will find that your truck is being moved around in your lane and that your sawing the steering wheel back and forth to keep centered in your lane.
A WDH isn't just for capacity, it's for handling.

[270wsmhunter]

I use an Equal-i-zer 14K hitch with both of the 1 tons we had/have. One was a diesel, new one is a gasser. Neither truck squatted more than 2-3" just sitting on the ball but there is a lot of surface area on our 34' trailer to catch wind so better safe than sorry for my family and the people driving around us.