Bully Dog and SCT Settles With Feds

[Dadoffourgirls]

Derive Systems on Monday agreed to pay $6.25 million to improve internal compliance procedures and pay a civil penalty of $300,000 to settle charges that it sold 363,000 aftermarket emissions control defeat device software for cars and trucks, the EPA and Department of Justice said.

Derive manufactured and sold software designed to access and overwrite original vehicle manufacturers' software for monitoring vehicles' onboard diagnostics of emissions control to comply with the Clean Air Act. The products were sold under the brand names Bully Dog and SCT. Derive's software enabled users to remove emission control components that reduce tailpipe emissions, including catalysts, diesel particulate filters, exhaust gas recirculation systems, elements of onboard diagnostic systems, and other certified components.

Under the settlement, Derive must stop selling noncompliant tuners and retrofit existing tuners so that they comply with the law. It also must stop instructing consumers how to defeat emissions controls in their vehicles and train employees to comply with the law.

The EPA has made clear in recent years that it will enforce laws prohibiting modifications to certified vehicles' emissions components.

[ShinerBock]

CarterKraft wrote:

Even "off road" vehicles have emission to meet.
Case in point. Chinese diesels couldn't meet the standard with the tractors they wanted to export to US. They were banned until they could meet the standard.

I believe there intention was closed course competition off road.

Think tractor pulls, drag racing etc.

Correct. Race vehicles are not subject to emissions standards.

[CarterKraft]

Even "off road" vehicles have emission to meet.
Case in point. Chinese diesels couldn't meet the standard with the tractors they wanted to export to US. They were banned until they could meet the standard.

I believe there intention was closed course competition off road.

Think tractor pulls, drag racing etc.

[NJRVer]

camperdave wrote:

NJRVer wrote:
Sounds like the aftermarket got spanked for basically doing the same thing Volkswagen got caught doing.
They both violated the emission laws.

Makes you wonder how the aftermarket thought they would keep getting away with it after Volkswagen was caught.

They thought that putting "for off road use only" on the box would be a loophole they could use. VW obviously can't do that.

apparently the epa disagrees with their use of that loophole. Looks like it was an out of court settlement so the epa probably just bullied them into compliance with threats of long lawsuits.

Even "off road" vehicles have emission to meet.
Case in point. Chinese diesels couldn't meet the standard with the tractors they wanted to export to US. They were banned until they could meet the standard.

[CarterKraft]

ShinerBock wrote:
Yeah, I guess you guys are right. We should all trust that the EPA(or any government agency) knows what's best for us without question. If they think all the added fuel consumption, added trash from DEF jugs and added emissions from plants used to make DEF is worth going from a NOx output of 1.2 g/hp-hr in 2007 to .2 g/hp-hr in 2010 without knowing how much off a difference it makes taking all things into account then I should blindly follow. Government always knows best, just ask the people of Flint, Michigan or the people living along the Animas river in Colorado.

I don't believe that and it sounds like you don't either.

I voted the "Orange Man" in the hopes of balance but much like all GOV we can't get past Russia or accusations of ****, to do any good.

I already knew the EPA didn't care about the whole picture or we would have dropped Ethanol long ago, and money (in certain pockets) is the only advantage to it.

[camperdave]

NJRVer wrote:
Sounds like the aftermarket got spanked for basically doing the same thing Volkswagen got caught doing.
They both violated the emission laws.

Makes you wonder how the aftermarket thought they would keep getting away with it after Volkswagen was caught.

They thought that putting "for off road use only" on the box would be a loophole they could use. VW obviously can't do that.

apparently the epa disagrees with their use of that loophole. Looks like it was an out of court settlement so the epa probably just bullied them into compliance with threats of long lawsuits.

[Cummins12V98]

ShinerBock wrote:
Yeah, I guess you guys are right. We should all trust that the EPA(or any government agency) knows what's best for us without question. If they think all the added fuel consumption, added trash from DEF jugs and added emissions from plants used to make DEF is worth going from a NOx output of 1.2 g/hp-hr in 2007 to .2 g/hp-hr in 2010 without knowing how much off a difference it makes taking all things into account then I should blindly follow. Government always knows best, just ask the people of Flint, Michigan or the people living along the Animas river in Colorado.

Bout the same as people thinking their electric cars are "pollution free".

They are either killing Salmon with Hydro, burning EVIL coal and natural gas or Heaven forbid Nuclear power by plugging in their "CLEAN GREEN" cars. OH let's not forget the environmental wasteland from some of the batteries.

[ShinerBock]

Yeah, I guess you guys are right. We should all trust that the EPA(or any government agency) knows what's best for us without question. If they think all the added fuel consumption, added trash from DEF jugs and added emissions from plants used to make DEF is worth going from a NOx output of 1.2 g/hp-hr in 2007 to .2 g/hp-hr in 2010 without knowing how much off a difference it makes taking all things into account then I should blindly follow. Government always knows best, just ask the people of Flint, Michigan or the people living along the Animas river in Colorado.

[timmac]

Here is 2 articles on the new law, not sure if 5 Star Tuning for gas motorhomes fall under this but time will tell, at least I am happy with my 5 Star Tuning and not going to change it.

https://jalopnik.com/aftermarket-software-tuners-sct-and-bully-dog-forced-to-1829348318


https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/epa-fines-tuning-company-dollar300000-for-producing-and-selling...

[timmac]

ShinerBock wrote:

TheLuvShack wrote:
Do you think this ruling will affect 5 Star Tune?

Yes, according to another article I read about this ruling it stated that it will force SCT to limit what perimeters custom tuners are allowed to change. The reason why custom tuners like 5 Star were able to add power to trucks like my old old Ecoboost was by removing all of the programming that limited emissions. In many cases, the factory programming did more harm to the engine in order to reduce emissions than tuning did.

Yea better order that 5 Star Tuner fast before they pull them back and reprogram, glad I got mine and I am not removing my program, my motorhome still past smog just fine, unless the new EPA tuner law is not for gas motors..

[Ron3rd]

NJRVer wrote:
Sounds like the aftermarket got spanked for basically doing the same thing Volkswagen got caught doing.
They both violated the emission laws.

Makes you wonder how the aftermarket thought they would keep getting away with it after Volkswagen was caught.

Correct. If you alter the factory parameters, you do so at your peril. I'm really surprised Orange Man even cares since he would be in favor of them burning coal. Makes no difference to him and Big Coal eats up everything he says. SAD!

[FishOnOne]

NJRVer wrote:
Sounds like the aftermarket got spanked for basically doing the same thing Volkswagen got caught doing.
They both violated the emission laws.

Makes you wonder how the aftermarket thought they would keep getting away with it after Volkswagen was caught.

Excluding Gale Banks

[NJRVer]

Sounds like the aftermarket got spanked for basically doing the same thing Volkswagen got caught doing.
They both violated the emission laws.

Makes you wonder how the aftermarket thought they would keep getting away with it after Volkswagen was caught.

[CarterKraft]

You have me somewhat intrigued, what diesel tuner do you know that is doing emissions testing?

Have you seen the smoke from a stock tuned, deleted Duramax? I am not sure from the amount of PM that they produce I would draw these grandiose conclusions about how clean they are.

I think they could be no cleaner than a TierIII engine right?

Feel free to take this discussion to PM if you would like, the thread was about BullyDog and SCTs lawsuit with the Feds, my statements reflect that.

[ShinerBock]

CarterKraft wrote:
It seems you are trying to retro-actively apply emissions law/theory to the vehicles/laws in question.

(For the record I believe we are in the same camp, and agree on the same points however the EPA is not in my camp nor do I describe to their way of thinking.)

For the companies to profit from the defeat of the EPA's own mandated devices is a pretty ballsy move from my position.

And then standing on the courthouse steps telling the EPA why your deleted truck doesn't use DEF and saves the environment due to improved emissions sounds like a fools errand to me, they don't want input they want compliance.

I am pretty sure the EPA has ZERO care as to how much fuel we use per year, I would argue that they worse off fuel consumption gets the easier it gets to do there job (create beat down laws) and unpractical mandates for lower mileage numbers and emissions. Self fulfilling prophecy if you will.

I know of one of the vendors in the diesel performance space that purposely never collected a dime for there emissions defeat devices because to do so would land you in a lawsuit...

I hope you don't take me as argumentative, I don't think the EPA or any .gov entity for that matter cares much about what I have to say post elections.

I was just correcting false statements made, not trying to plead my case to the EPA. The EPA is a bureaucracy that will not hesitate to turn law abiding citizens who used hot rod their cars/trucks into criminals overnight. Similar to gun control.

However, many people ignorantly believe that diesels (even deleted ones) are more harmful to the environment just because they can see the emissions from the diesel and not a gas engine. No doubt that the coal rollers(whom I hate as well) exacerbated the issue by purposely trying to spew black smoke. Due to ULSD, VG turbos, more injection events, higher fuel pressures, and so on, today's deleted diesels likely have better emissions than stock diesels did before 2007. Most tuned diesels today do not emit any black smoke unless you switch it to a hot tune.

Again, just because you can't see gas emissions doesn't mean there isn't any.