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EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks

thomas201
Explorer
Explorer
So much wheel spinning on EVs, what if they are not the right path forward? The biggest problem with renewable power and EVs is storage, the second is storage, and the third is storage. Another path is carbon capture from the atmosphere (using amine scrubbing like nuclear subs and carbon dioxide from natural gas) then splitting hydrogen from water, followed by building whatever hydrocarbon you need.

The US Navy is hard at work on this project, since it avoids storage of large amounts of jet fuel, and the difficult job of resupply of jet fuel at sea to the carriers. After all fire kills ships. The Fords were built with a very large excess electric generation capacity for this reason and many others.

Porsche now has a pilot project running in South America, Porsche syn fuel

This will work wherever you have cheap electricity and water. The products are put right into refinery feeds. No need to rebuild the approximately 1.5 Billion cars in the world. Solves storage, no worry about hydrogen embrittlement, recycles carbon dioxide, we use the existing liquid fuel distribution system. Transparent to the car/truck owner.
452 REPLIES 452

SterlingHayden
Explorer
Explorer
map40 wrote:
SterlingHayden wrote:
map40 wrote:
To give you real numbers, my son drives 40 miles each way to work every day. Heave traffic one part and highway. In his old car, $300 in gas per month in a good month. In his I3, $31 in electricity, $0 in gas (never had to use it). Of course, his case is a very faverable, but as I said, when it makes sense and is cheaper...


That's all pussygood, and will be right up until until the powers that be slap on some sort of mileage tax, EV tax, call it what you will, to make up for the lost fuel tax revenues. You can bet your arse that's on the way soon. If history of such things holds true he'll then be paying more than the original $300.00 he paid in gas. Add to that the current energy policy in the US is driving electricity and other energy costs through the stratosphere, and you're just seeing the beginning of the fiasco. Give it a year and your electric bill is going to look more like a mortgage payment coupon.

I was told the same thing in 2012 when I got a Nissan Leaf. Incredibly well built, did not even had to change brake pads until 120k miles. Is 2023, I am still not paying taxes or terribly high energy costs.
As I said before, forget politics and preconceptions, just look at things for what they are. I am well aware of the risks, and of it happens I can easily produce my own energy, it's quite easy.



So you actually believe when enough EVs replace ICE vehicles for it to show up on the revenue balance sheets in brackets, they're not going to be sticking their hands in the EV owners pockets to make it back up? Come on man. Where are they going to get those funds?

SterlingHayden
Explorer
Explorer
shelbyfv wrote:
SterlingHayden wrote:
That's all pussygood, and will be right up until until the powers that be slap on some sort of mileage tax, EV tax, call it what you will, to make up for the lost fuel tax revenues. You can bet your arse that's on the way soon. If history of such things holds true he'll then be paying more than the original $300.00 he paid in gas. Add to that the current energy policy in the US is driving electricity and other energy costs through the stratosphere, and you're just seeing the beginning of the fiasco. Give it a year and your electric bill is going to look more like a mortgage payment coupon.
Another class act, welcome. Maybe check back this time next year, see how your prediction worked out.



Yes. By reading through your past posts I see that you certainly are.

map40
Explorer
Explorer
RetiredRealtorRick wrote:
The i3 is a great concept, but also probably the best argument ever as to why alcohol consumption should never be allowed in design studios.

They gave a group of engineers green light to design the best electric car they could, and they did. The I3 is not a luxury sedan, a highway cruiser or a race car. It's a daily derived with a plan to overcome the biggest problem of EVs: Dependency on the charger. From really skinny tires so you have more foot space to carbon fiber panels made in 4 minutes (that even today no other company can replicate), It is an incredible design, but also a perfect proof that EVs are only good for certain applications, not all applications.
To the subject of this thread, I don't see EV trucks taking over the market with the current technology or with the technology that is coming.
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

map40
Explorer
Explorer
SterlingHayden wrote:
map40 wrote:
To give you real numbers, my son drives 40 miles each way to work every day. Heave traffic one part and highway. In his old car, $300 in gas per month in a good month. In his I3, $31 in electricity, $0 in gas (never had to use it). Of course, his case is a very faverable, but as I said, when it makes sense and is cheaper...


That's all pussygood, and will be right up until until the powers that be slap on some sort of mileage tax, EV tax, call it what you will, to make up for the lost fuel tax revenues. You can bet your arse that's on the way soon. If history of such things holds true he'll then be paying more than the original $300.00 he paid in gas. Add to that the current energy policy in the US is driving electricity and other energy costs through the stratosphere, and you're just seeing the beginning of the fiasco. Give it a year and your electric bill is going to look more like a mortgage payment coupon.

I was told the same thing in 2012 when I got a Nissan Leaf. Incredibly well built, did not even had to change brake pads until 120k miles. Is 2023, I am still not paying taxes or terribly high energy costs.
As I said before, forget politics and preconceptions, just look at things for what they are. I am well aware of the risks, and of it happens I can easily produce my own energy, it's quite easy.
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

shelbyfv
Explorer
Explorer
SterlingHayden wrote:
That's all pussygood, and will be right up until until the powers that be slap on some sort of mileage tax, EV tax, call it what you will, to make up for the lost fuel tax revenues. You can bet your arse that's on the way soon. If history of such things holds true he'll then be paying more than the original $300.00 he paid in gas. Add to that the current energy policy in the US is driving electricity and other energy costs through the stratosphere, and you're just seeing the beginning of the fiasco. Give it a year and your electric bill is going to look more like a mortgage payment coupon.
Another class act, welcome. Maybe check back this time next year, see how your prediction worked out.

RetiredRealtorR
Explorer
Explorer
The i3 is a great concept, but also probably the best argument ever as to why alcohol consumption should never be allowed in design studios.
. . . never confuse education with intelligence, nor motion with progress

SterlingHayden
Explorer
Explorer
map40 wrote:
To give you real numbers, my son drives 40 miles each way to work every day. Heave traffic one part and highway. In his old car, $300 in gas per month in a good month. In his I3, $31 in electricity, $0 in gas (never had to use it). Of course, his case is a very faverable, but as I said, when it makes sense and is cheaper...


That's all pussygood, and will be right up until until the powers that be slap on some sort of mileage tax, EV tax, call it what you will, to make up for the lost fuel tax revenues. You can bet your arse that's on the way soon. If history of such things holds true he'll then be paying more than the original $300.00 he paid in gas. Add to that the current energy policy in the US is driving electricity and other energy costs through the stratosphere, and you're just seeing the beginning of the fiasco. Give it a year and your electric bill is going to look more like a mortgage payment coupon.

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
map40 wrote:
blt2ski wrote:
Does the i3 have an equal to a motorcycle engine in it! Might be what older sister has. She claims 75'ish miles with that motor until out of fuel. 175-200 on battery power.
I'm positive BIL can figure out the electrical change out part....

Marty

It has a 660cc BMW engine used in mopeds all over the world. The engine is bulletproof. She gets only 75 because she did not enable the whole tanks and the on demand on/off.
And they drive like a BMW. They are fast of the line and they do 100mph if you push them. Reprograming them is relatively easy, you can live by just changing basic options with a OBDII plug and a phone.


Not sure if they have figured this out yet, as they got it 4-6 months ago. 'll have to see if they've looked into it. I do know for her driving style, its a fun car for her!

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

map40
Explorer
Explorer
blt2ski wrote:
Does the i3 have an equal to a motorcycle engine in it! Might be what older sister has. She claims 75'ish miles with that motor until out of fuel. 175-200 on battery power.
I'm positive BIL can figure out the electrical change out part....

Marty

It has a 660cc BMW engine used in mopeds all over the world. The engine is bulletproof. She gets only 75 because she did not enable the whole tanks and the on demand on/off.
And they drive like a BMW. They are fast of the line and they do 100mph if you push them. Reprograming them is relatively easy, you can live by just changing basic options with a OBDII plug and a phone.
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

map40
Explorer
Explorer
RoyJ wrote:

People like to rip on the i3, but I think it's the best design for an EV. A series hybrid if you will. Just a tweak in firmware like you did to allow the IC charger to run full blast and build up charge.

Towing aside, that implementation would work for 99% of commuters. Charge at home, and rely on the 30hp charger. Your *average* hp consumption is far less than 30hp during commute drive.

Call it whatever, hybrid, EV with IC charger, etc. But that approach can be applied to any commuter - Civics, small crossovers, hatchbacks. Way less complex than a Volt or parallel hybrid. A Honda CBR 500 type motor can be had for a $1 - 2k if mass produced.

Could not agree more. Carbon fiber with bonded aluminum chassis, bullet-proof battery, perfect generator integration. BMW developed the I3 to learn, and it is for me the best designed EV you can buy. Is it for everybody? No. But for a big group of people it will do perfect.
Think about this, a car with 400 miles of battery range, how good is it to conmute? You pay and drag 3 times the battery capacity that what you use every day only to use it a few times a year? And you still need to charge it and depend on chargers? Not good for me. This works perfect for the application.
The only way that people will adopt the technology is if it is cheaper and as convenient as ICE. The I3 does it perfectly
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

blt2ski
Moderator
Moderator
Does the i3 have an equal to a motorcycle engine in it! Might be what older sister has. She claims 75'ish miles with that motor until out of fuel. 175-200 on battery power.
I'm positive BIL can figure out the electrical change out part....

Marty
92 Navistar dump truck, 7.3L 7 sp, 4.33 gears with a Detroit no spin
2014 Chevy 1500 Dual cab 4x4
92 Red-e-haul 12K equipment trailer

RoyJ
Explorer
Explorer
map40 wrote:
As far as I care, I did. What is the biggest problem with EVs? Dealing with charging, finding the chargers and waiting 1 hour. I did not have to do that once. I did it by having an APU, but that is the compromise that makes it worth while. I ran the APU 5 times last year. That saved me from EVER HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT CHARGING, NOT ONCEDURING THE WHOLE YEAR. However you look at it, it eliminated the only problem I had with having an EV. Ask any EV owner, that is the biggest problem.
Forget politics, preconceptions and ideologies. If I offer you a car that is more efficient, that runs on fuel at least 5 times cheaper, that you can refuel at home and that you can drive it as far as you want, wouldn't that be a good deal?
As I said at the beginning, EVs are not the light at the end of the tunnel and they are not for everybody, but for the people that fit the use they are a great choice now.
Trucks...I don't see it that easy...


People like to rip on the i3, but I think it's the best design for an EV. A series hybrid if you will. Just a tweak in firmware like you did to allow the IC charger to run full blast and build up charge.

Towing aside, that implementation would work for 99% of commuters. Charge at home, and rely on the 30hp charger. Your *average* hp consumption is far less than 30hp during commute drive.

Call it whatever, hybrid, EV with IC charger, etc. But that approach can be applied to any commuter - Civics, small crossovers, hatchbacks. Way less complex than a Volt or parallel hybrid. A Honda CBR 500 type motor can be had for a $1 - 2k if mass produced.

map40
Explorer
Explorer
Michelle.S wrote:
That's OK, I've read that the brand new Pepsi Tesla Semi was spotting behind a Tow Rig!

First, is a Tesla, they have the worst quality. Second, New product, New technology, I would expect to see more than one...
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

map40
Explorer
Explorer
way2roll wrote:
map40 wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40 wrote:
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean he’s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator


In other words you made your BEV into a hybrid.

Without the complicated mechanics and the short range of a plug in hybrid (not a hybrid). Might sound similar, but it is a world of difference.
Always remember, an ICE is 30% efficient on converting fuel into motion. Parasitic loads, brakes converting kinetic energy into heat, they are all waste. An EV is 95% efficient converting power into motion.
As I said, they are a great alternative for the right use, but they won't replace all ICEs uses. And Trucks are the most difficult use for EV applications.


But to circle back around to your claim, you did not go 1500 miles without a charge.

As far as I care, I did. What is the biggest problem with EVs? Dealing with charging, finding the chargers and waiting 1 hour. I did not have to do that once. I did it by having an APU, but that is the compromise that makes it worth while. I ran the APU 5 times last year. That saved me from EVER HAVING TO WORRY ABOUT CHARGING, NOT ONCEDURING THE WHOLE YEAR. However you look at it, it eliminated the only problem I had with having an EV. Ask any EV owner, that is the biggest problem.
Forget politics, preconceptions and ideologies. If I offer you a car that is more efficient, that runs on fuel at least 5 times cheaper, that you can refuel at home and that you can drive it as far as you want, wouldn't that be a good deal?
As I said at the beginning, EVs are not the light at the end of the tunnel and they are not for everybody, but for the people that fit the use they are a great choice now.
Trucks...I don't see it that easy...
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

Michelle_S
Explorer II
Explorer II
That's OK, I've read that the brand new Pepsi Tesla Semi was spotting behind a Tow Rig!
2018 Chevy 3500HD High Country Crew Cab DRW, D/A, 2016 Redwood 39MB, Dual AC, Fireplace, Sleep #Bed, Auto Sat Dish, Stack Washer/Dryer, Auto Level Sys, Disk Brakes, Onan Gen, 17.5" "H" tires, MORryde Pin & IS, Comfort Ride, Dual Awnings, Full Body Paint