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EV alternative for light/medium duty trucks

thomas201
Explorer
Explorer
So much wheel spinning on EVs, what if they are not the right path forward? The biggest problem with renewable power and EVs is storage, the second is storage, and the third is storage. Another path is carbon capture from the atmosphere (using amine scrubbing like nuclear subs and carbon dioxide from natural gas) then splitting hydrogen from water, followed by building whatever hydrocarbon you need.

The US Navy is hard at work on this project, since it avoids storage of large amounts of jet fuel, and the difficult job of resupply of jet fuel at sea to the carriers. After all fire kills ships. The Fords were built with a very large excess electric generation capacity for this reason and many others.

Porsche now has a pilot project running in South America, Porsche syn fuel

This will work wherever you have cheap electricity and water. The products are put right into refinery feeds. No need to rebuild the approximately 1.5 Billion cars in the world. Solves storage, no worry about hydrogen embrittlement, recycles carbon dioxide, we use the existing liquid fuel distribution system. Transparent to the car/truck owner.
452 REPLIES 452

way2roll
Navigator
Navigator
map40 wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40 wrote:
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator


In other words you made your BEV into a hybrid.

Without the complicated mechanics and the short range of a plug in hybrid (not a hybrid). Might sound similar, but it is a world of difference.
Always remember, an ICE is 30% efficient on converting fuel into motion. Parasitic loads, brakes converting kinetic energy into heat, they are all waste. An EV is 95% efficient converting power into motion.
As I said, they are a great alternative for the right use, but they won't replace all ICEs uses. And Trucks are the most difficult use for EV applications.


But to circle back around to your claim, you did not go 1500 miles without a charge.

Jeff - 2023 FR Sunseeker 2400B MBS

map40
Explorer
Explorer
To give you real numbers, my son drives 40 miles each way to work every day. Heave traffic one part and highway. In his old car, $300 in gas per month in a good month. In his I3, $31 in electricity, $0 in gas (never had to use it). Of course, his case is a very faverable, but as I said, when it makes sense and is cheaper...
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

map40
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
map40 wrote:
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator


In other words you made your BEV into a hybrid.

Without the complicated mechanics and the short range of a plug in hybrid (not a hybrid). Might sound similar, but it is a world of difference.
Always remember, an ICE is 30% efficient on converting fuel into motion. Parasitic loads, brakes converting kinetic energy into heat, they are all waste. An EV is 95% efficient converting power into motion.
As I said, they are a great alternative for the right use, but they won't replace all ICEs uses. And Trucks are the most difficult use for EV applications.
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
map40 wrote:
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator


In other words you made your BEV into a hybrid.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
d1h wrote:


Totally agree, within the context of this thread, save for the little sparky thingys!
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

Grit_dog
Navigator
Navigator
map40 wrote:
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator


So youโ€™re not performing magic here. And aside from the I3 being typical overly expensive for the BMW name combined with lower than avg resale (also typical for bmw) and being an ultra compact cracker box compared to the plethora of other hybrid compact cars that also can knock down 50mpg plus, you DIDNโ€™T go 1500mi without charging, you went 1500miles using the built in gasoline powered generator to charge on the fly. And stopped for gas in that 1500miles.
Nice try at whatever point you were trying to make.
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5โ€ turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold

d1h
Nomad III
Nomad III

way2roll
Navigator
Navigator
map40 wrote:
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator


I'm confused. You said 1500 miles with no charging. But then go on to say the car has a built in gas generator - which is charging.

Jeff - 2023 FR Sunseeker 2400B MBS

map40
Explorer
Explorer
Let me clarify one more thing. Range anxiety is a problem with trucks. You suffer it when you are towing, you want to go to a good gas or diesel station with enough space to drive around and good prices. Good bathrooms and maybe a few snacks. Now imagine you have a truck that can only recharge in a station that can't recharge with your trailer hooked up, and is the only station in 50 miles aroung and you can't get to another one.
Factor number 2: Emergencies. If you have to travel somewhere on an emergency, how likely is to get you with a full battery and with enough time to recharge on the way?
As I said, EVs only make sense when they are cheaper to own and convenient. A lot of people could use EVs and do great with, but THEY ARE NOT FOR EVERYBODY AND EVERY CASE.
There is one thing you have to give EVs, they are ADDICTIVE! Once you are used to the acceleration, durability and covenience, it sucks going back to ICEs....
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

map40
Explorer
Explorer
wnjj wrote:
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

No, 1500 miles with no charging. I have never charged in a public charger. I have an EV that was designed propperly, with an on-board generator. 99% I use battery. 1% of the time I do a long trip I use the generator
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

map40
Explorer
Explorer
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

BMW I3. Small modifications to the controllers and a factory built in APU (A gas generator).
As I said, EVs are good for the right application. 99% of my driving is well within the battery range. When I need to travel further I canrun on gas and I don't have to worry about recharging. And as the EV is way more efficient, I get over 50 MPG easy.
Remember, EVs will work only when they save you money and are convenient. A plug in hybrid is a complex vehicle. An EV with a small backup Auxiliary Power Unit is a really simple vehicle. Fully electric powertrain, can be charged at home, but you don't have to depend on the charging network when you are doing a long trip.
That is why I don't believe the RV industry won't see electric powertrains anytime soon. When you use an RV (Motorhome or towing) you need long distance high power. Electric sucks for that.
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

wnjj
Explorer II
Explorer II
pianotuna wrote:
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?

I took that to mean heโ€™s driven 1500 miles and not had to use a public charger (i.e. round trips from home).

pianotuna
Nomad III
Nomad III
map40,

Which electric car will go 1500 miles on a single charge?
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

map40
Explorer
Explorer
This is going everywhere but where it was originally going. I have been arround EVs (terrestrial, aerial and extra-atmospherical) for 12 years and I have been around designing medium dutty and heavy dutty truck for the previous 20.
The answer is easy. It is a good alternative when it is cheaper to operate. I have 2 electric cars that pay for themselvs. I replaced my RV generator for a battery pack because I hated that darn diesel generator (if you had to work on a diesel generator with no slides you understand), and I was able to buy the battery with the money I got for the generator. Now I run everything for 1/20th of what it costed me with the diesel generator.
Can you use an electric truck? For some applications, not for many. A car is easier. As a matter of fact, there are EVs today that can replace ICE cars with no inconvenience whatsoever (I have driven over 1500 miles without recharging in my EV just to see if it was possible).
Is electricity the light at the end of the tunnel? I don't think so. But in the meantime, for the right applications, EVs are vastly superior and significantly cheaper to own.
Now, I don't see any of us in an electric truck towing a trailer or an electric motorhome any time soon...
Alfa SeeYa
Life rocks when your home rolls

JRscooby
Explorer II
Explorer II
valhalla360 wrote:

So if Asphalt is such a horrible material, why is it that around 80% of paved road miles are asphalt.


Cost. If the city/states would spend the money to use better materials for roads, the people that scream about leaving kids public debt would come more unhinged than normal. The idea of leaving kids roads that can be used for decades can't fit between the ears.


Keep in mind Portland Cement Concrete requires burning a lot of fuel to make the cement...leaving behind more asphalt cement from the left overs of a barrel of crude oil to let's not pretend it's a "greener" alternative.


Yes, it takes a lot of fire to make Portland. More than what it takes to heat asphalt to pave the same distance? IDK. But I know all that burning is in 1 location, then the product hauled out to be mixed near where used. 1 stack emissions can be monitored better than when the burning is happening anyplace want to set a portable plant.
Late '90s the local Portland was bought out, and up graded. It burns a lot of utility supplied NG, I'm sure. Also burns over 300 tons a week of ground up tires. Dozens of vans of plastic unloaded for fuel every day. And the old quarry across the highway, turned into a sanitary landfill has a 8 inch line to feed the methane most landfills vent into the burner.


Can you source these tests that show oil leaches out from asphalt? Cars leaking oil onto the pavement can do that but particularly for old asphalt concrete, the vast majority of light oils that would be subject to leaching out are long gone. That's the biggest problem with old asphalt...all that remains after 30yrs are the solids, so it doesn't make a very effective binder.


First I heard of asphalt leaching, a local construction company bought a big chunk of ground, with the idea of using as a waste fill until up above water level of '93. For about 10 years, dumped a lot of concrete buildings, dirt, tear out from utility repairs, even a few crossover in there. City found oil in the public well, traced back to that field. Spent a bunch of money with a couple of excavators working under city supervision, digging down to virgin ground, sorting asphalt out, and refilling the trench. For the last decade I worked asphalt was added to brush, lumber trash leaves sign of what can't be dumped.


The other problem is you have far less control over the quality of the aggregate (sand & gravel). With asphalt concrete, the aggregate is typically more important than the binder.


This is true about Portland as well.