First timer looking for TT...so confused

[srockey]

Hello all,
My wife and I have been long time tent campers, occasionally going with friends in TT and pop-ups.
We decided we wanted a TT. I have a truck that has a trailer capacity of about 6000 lbs. I would like the price to be no more than the low $20K. We have looked at many TT. When I look at reviews on TT brands, some are good and some are very bad.
We found a Keystone Passport ML199 that fits our weight requirement and has the layout we want. BUT after researching Keystone, there are a lot of negative reviews. Then I look further and find that another website has them in the top 10 of manufacturers. So what is the truth?
I would like this TT to last at least 10-15 years, if possible.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Steve

[Fordlover]

Looks like a great match. Enjoy!

[rbpru]

Sweet looking TT. Congratulations.

[GrandpaKip]

Congratulations. That camper was on our short list a couple years ago.

Hey SG and TA, you guys quit yer squabblin’ or go to your room. Winter ain’t even here yet.

[CincyGus]

Congrats on the new trailer and best wishes for a great experience!

[Terryallan]

SoundGuy wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
How long it will last depends entirely on you. It will last for decades if you take proper care of it.

SoundGuy wrote:
Keeping anything out of the elements, be it a trailer, motorcycle, boat, whatever, does make a big difference, but unfortunately most travel trailers aren't and the result shows.

Terryallan wrote:
The last TT I had was 10 years old when we sold it. It looked like new inside, and out. Because I took care of it. It was regularly waxed, and maintained. It did sit outside. But didn't fade because of the wax. However. You are correct. A TT not taken care of will look like trash in just a few years.

And I'd be one of them, have never fully waxed any trailer we've ever owned - WAY too much work. 😉 I did wax the front wall on our Coachmen once when I noticed it fading from direct exposure to the summer sun while parked here at the house and that did help but didn't entirely restore the finish. In another 10 yrs I suspect whomever owns it then will have just another tired looking trailer with a significantly chalked & faded front wall. 😞

Back in my motorcycle days I stored every one of the 16 I owned over the course of 30 yrs in my heated workshop and every one was mint, even those 20 yrs old. Our Santa Fe popup I kept inside year round as well, washed it a couple of times each season but never waxed it, and it too was mint when we sold it after 6 yrs of hard use. Unfortunately the reality is the vast majority of travel trailers live outdoors unprotected, perhaps washed occasionally, but rarely if ever waxed so no wonder most of them look pretty bad once they're 15+ yrs old, the exception being those stored indoors when not in use. I'd bet the vast majority of prospective travel trailer owners never give this any thought before the purchase - i.e. just how much work it is to keep one in pristine shape, both mechanically & cosmetically. :E

I was raised to spend the time to care for my stuff. Cars, Trucks boat, TT, house, what ever. Mostly because we NEVER had much money and what ever we bought had to last a VERY LONG time. So I wax, and I wash, and I tend to it. It is a lot cheaper to wax it, than replace it. Plus I enjoy waxing things. I like to see the paint change color as I wipe it on and off, and it gives me time to think, and just enjoy being outside

We tented with a Camel tent. And yes I put it up, and sprayed it with camp dry. Went camping, Brought it home put it up to dry, and it was stolen out of the back yard. BTW. Back in the day, a Cabin Camel tent was the bomb. So we thought a pup would be harder to steal, and got a used 1973 Jayco J for $700. And got what we paid for. The top was rotten. But I fixed it up, and we used it several years. Then sold it, and got a 70 Starcraft for $900.00. Ws in good shape, and we used it for 5 or 6 years. Then in 99 bought a new Viking. It was great, but got to the point it rained every time I went near it. After standing at Linville Falls for a couple hours waiting for the rain to stop. It didn't for 2 days. We decided to get a TT, so we could just back in, get out and go inside, and unhook later. This worked GREAT.

Took great care of it because it had to last the 12 years it was financed for. Paid off early. But still. It was babied because I couldn't replace it, and I don't like my stuff looking like trash.


So you see. I don't mind putting in the time to take care of my stuff. Car waxed once or so a year, Truck waxed usually 2 times a year. Camper waxed atleast once a year. And as I was the boat doctor at Dixie Boat. ( If a new boat got a air bubble, scratch, or nick, or hole. It was brought to me) I'm pretty good at taking care of things. I took a 5 year old ocean used 21 footer, faded, and oxidised, and made it look close to new with 400 gritt water paper, and a buffer. Good enough that the customer was well pleased.

BTW. the trick to keeping a finish looking good in the sun. Is to keep it waxed. If you wait untill it starts to fade. It is usually too late. Unless it has a thick (1/16") gel coat. then you can water sand it out.

[jfkmk]

Nice camper! BTW, the dealer will tell you anything to make a sale. You’re probably correct in keeping the weight down.

Good luck!

[srockey]

Well, we ended up purchasing a 2019 Keystone Passport ML199. Empty it weighs about 3800 lbs. I drive a 2004 V8 Toyota Tundra with the factory tow package. I took the trailer for a good drive before I bought it. I was pleased with the way it handled. Thank you for all the advice. This forum has been very helpful.

Interesting, I went to a dealer yesterday to look at the same trailer new. He told me that my truck would handle 7000 lbs if I wanted some3hting bigger. There is no way I would push that limit, but he did that because we had seemed interested in one that weighed more than what we wanted.

[Fordlover]

donn0128 wrote:
Greetings,

Third. NEVER EVER buy new as a first RV. Once you have it home you will start finding stuff you dont like. After a year or two most people trade for their next RV or simply get rid of it. RVs are a huge depreciating asset, so there is no need to throw your money away. Unless that is you like to.

I guess you have to know you, and what is likely for you. We researched and bought new back in 2007. Kept it for 11 years, upgrading last year for two reasons: it was getting old/developing issues, and we had two children (born 2011 and 2013) and our needs changed (wanted bunks for the kids.)

The reality of every camper I've seen is pure disappointment in craftsmanship and quality. Nearly all are cheap and not assembled with long term materials and durability in mind.

Last point, Using your trucks tow rating to shop is risky. TT's are some of the most difficult to tow trailers in existence. It is not like a boat or a flatbed towing a car. High front wall and sides catch wind, heavy tongue weights challenge your tow vehicle.

If you have a 6,000 tow rating, I'd be looking at campers no more than 4,000 empty. What is your tongue weight limit? That is typically the limiting factor of your tow vehicle when towing TT's.

[SoundGuy]

Terryallan wrote:
How long it will last depends entirely on you. It will last for decades if you take proper care of it.

SoundGuy wrote:
Keeping anything out of the elements, be it a trailer, motorcycle, boat, whatever, does make a big difference, but unfortunately most travel trailers aren't and the result shows.

Terryallan wrote:
The last TT I had was 10 years old when we sold it. It looked like new inside, and out. Because I took care of it. It was regularly waxed, and maintained. It did sit outside. But didn't fade because of the wax. However. You are correct. A TT not taken care of will look like trash in just a few years.

And I'd be one of them, have never fully waxed any trailer we've ever owned - WAY too much work. 😉 I did wax the front wall on our Coachmen once when I noticed it fading from direct exposure to the summer sun while parked here at the house and that did help but didn't entirely restore the finish. In another 10 yrs I suspect whomever owns it then will have just another tired looking trailer with a significantly chalked & faded front wall. 😞

Back in my motorcycle days I stored every one of the 16 I owned over the course of 30 yrs in my heated workshop and every one was mint, even those 20 yrs old. Our Santa Fe popup I kept inside year round as well, washed it a couple of times each season but never waxed it, and it too was mint when we sold it after 6 yrs of hard use. Unfortunately the reality is the vast majority of travel trailers live outdoors unprotected, perhaps washed occasionally, but rarely if ever waxed so no wonder most of them look pretty bad once they're 15+ yrs old, the exception being those stored indoors when not in use. I'd bet the vast majority of prospective travel trailer owners never give this any thought before the purchase - i.e. just how much work it is to keep one in pristine shape, both mechanically & cosmetically. :E

[Terryallan]

SoundGuy wrote:

Terryallan wrote:
How long it will last depends entirely on you. It will last for decades if you take proper care of it.

I'm not sure that's true but don't have anything but observation on which to base that opinion as we've never kept one that long. With only the odd exception any travel trailer I've seen that's been 15+ yrs old has been pretty well beat. In contrast, it's not that difficult to find a used 15 - 20 yr old popup that's in mint condition, especially those that have been stored indoors when not in use. Keeping anything out of the elements, be it a trailer, motorcycle, boat, whatever, does make a big difference, but unfortunately most travel trailers aren't and the result shows.

The last TT I had was 10 years old when we sold it. It looked like new inside, and out. Because I took care of it. It was regularly waxed, and maintained. It did sit outside. But didn't fade because of the wax. However. You are correct. A TT not taken care of will look like trash in just a few years. Our friends had one just like ours, NEVER waxed it, and used Black Streak remover to clean it. It was chalke looking in 2 years. He kept asking why mine wasn't. I told him about waxing. He said that was to much trouble.

My current TT lives under a shed. It was out side for a couple years, long enough for the sun to draw the skylight up. I had to screw it back down. It is now 6 years old, and it too looks like new. I keep it waxed as well. Only broke one thing. DW didin't look before running the slide out, and a cooler caught the corner decrative facing, and broke it. I fixed it with my handy dandy screw driver.

Other than flipping the axles, replacing the door open holders, and replacing the rubber molding in the seam tracks. Haven't had to do much to it. Oh wait. I did replace one axle. The dog ate the wires to the brakes, and when they were rewireing it, Found a problem with the hub that was easier, and cheaper to replace than rebuild.


I HATE that dog. I had to build a fence around the TT inside the fence it was already in, just to keep the dog away from it. she took the wires off twice. And I got her to keep the squirrels, and chipmonks away. Don't think they would have done as much damage.

BTW. the dog pictured is NOT the dog that bothers the camper. That is Rudy. I miss him a lot.

[DutchmenSport]

Ktmrfs is correct. We had our Springxale for 8 years and our Outback TT for 5 years and both were used 24x7 10 months out of the tear. Jan and Feb are the 2 months they got closed up because they were too costly to heat when Indiaba temps are hovering zero.

Good campers and worked hard to keep them in great shape.

[ktmrfs]

find the trailer(s) that have a floorplan you like you can tow
Find a dealer with a decent reputation for PDI and decent service
either do regular checks yourself or have a decent dealer do it for you
spend some time keeping it clean and maintained.

Our Keystone Outback is 9 year old, has 40K miles on it (yes,, 40,000) gets camped in between 45-90 days each year.
Has grankids in it quite often along with grown kids

Interior looks like new, outside in great shape by keeping it washed, waxed and covered.

Several friends with trailers have similar useage and mileage and care. And again their trailers have been reliable and are still in good shape.


Only thing major I've done for reliability is to replace the factory shackles with the greasable shackles and go to E rated tires when the initial tires wore out.

I believe dutchman sport has similar good experience with esentially the same trailer and I think his got lots of use as well.

[SoundGuy]

Terryallan wrote:
How long it will last depends entirely on you. It will last for decades if you take proper care of it.

I'm not sure that's true but don't have anything but observation on which to base that opinion as we've never kept one that long. With only the odd exception any travel trailer I've seen that's been 15+ yrs old has been pretty well beat. In contrast, it's not that difficult to find a used 15 - 20 yr old popup that's in mint condition, especially those that have been stored indoors when not in use. Keeping anything out of the elements, be it a trailer, motorcycle, boat, whatever, does make a big difference, but unfortunately most travel trailers aren't and the result shows.

[SoundGuy]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
Price sells so TT companies want them to be as inexpensive as possible. Even the "high end" products for a manufacture seem to put the money in "bells and whistles" instead of making more durable campers. (Example - Coachmen makes a big deal out of the fact that their side walls are made with Azdel panels. Not the rear, front or roof. Why ?)

Coachmen doesn't use Azdel for the front wall because it's a relatively stiff material that doesn't adapt well to bending. No reason though it couldn't be used on the rear wall. And Azdel isn't "bells and whistles", it really does meet the claim that it's impervious to water, regardless that other materials around it may not be. 😉