Fuelly mileage of the big three diesels

[ShinerBock]

It appears the new 10 speed in the Fords made a significant impact in catching up with the Cummins fuel mileage in the 2500's. Although it is still too little info in all of the new 2020 models to tell. It generally starts leveling out after around 50 vehicles and/or 500k miles recorded. Before this, it swings wildly.

Makes me wonder what it will be when they slap the 8 speed in the Ram diesels.

250/2500s
Ford


Ram


GM






350/3500s
Ford


Ram


GM

[ppine]

I bought a new diesel F-350 in 2002 and I am still driving it. It cost $35k and is now worth $18k. No gas truck could come close. Believe whatever you want.

[Cummins12V98]

"Why spend $10,000 on a diesel to tow 10,000 lbs"

CUZ I can.

[FishOnOne]

FishOnOne wrote:

Grit dog wrote:


But I won’t because I don’t care and I don’t bash anyone for what they drive or own. Never have.

I can't say this is entirely true but it's good to see you don't subscribe to the Ram Mafia anymore!

[FishOnOne]

Grit dog wrote:


But I won’t because I don’t care and I don’t bash anyone for what they drive or own. Never have.

I can't say this is entirely true but it's good to see you don't subscribe to the Ram Mafia anymore!

[ShinerBock]

32vld wrote:
the topic is not leather seats are better than cloth or cloth seats are better than vinyl.
that rugs or rubber floor mats are better.
that manual AC is better than automatic climate control.
that multi speaker radio system with CD and blue tooth is better than plain AM FM radio.

2.7 turbo to a 4.3 $385 more to a 5.3 another $1,790 more

towing capacity:

2.7 - 6,800
4.3 - 7,700
5.3 - 9,800 - 11,500

Why spend $10,000 on a diesel to tow 10,000 lbs
when a 5.3 for $2,175 will tow 10,000 lbs

YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FACT

that most people only drive 500 to 1,000 miles a year camping. That the better diesel
mpg will never be driven drive enough miles to recoup that extra $10,000 dollars
spent to have a diesel engine.

Too many people confuse a Want for a Need.

So in your analogy, all those people who paid the extra upfront cost and extra money on fuel (since premium fuel is needed) on a 6.2L just to tow 10k are wasting their money? Or, if a half ton owner only tows 5k (like most people outside the RV world)? They are wasting their money getting the 5.3L like a vast majority of GM half ton truck owners do?


What about the diesel in the GM half ton which is only a $1k upgrade in the 1500, not a $10k. And it also gets about 6 mpg better than the 5.3L according to Fuelly and will pay for itself in less than 40k miles at current prices. It is only rated to tow 9k, so going by what you stated above, anyone who is not towing over 9k is wasting their money getting the 5.3L over the 3.0L diesel.

[Diamond_c]

We’ve done 1150 miles so far this year and have at least 1 more trip to go at at least 200 miles or more. We just got a 2020 f250 diesel mainly for pulling the camper, but being a diesel should last us the rest of our lives, so We think the extra expense is worth it.

[32vld]

the topic is not leather seats are better than cloth or cloth seats are better than vinyl.
that rugs or rubber floor mats are better.
that manual AC is better than automatic climate control.
that multi speaker radio system with CD and blue tooth is better than plain AM FM radio.

2.7 turbo to a 4.3 $385 more to a 5.3 another $1,790 more

towing capacity:

2.7 - 6,800
4.3 - 7,700
5.3 - 9,800 - 11,500

Why spend $10,000 on a diesel to tow 10,000 lbs
when a 5.3 for $2,175 will tow 10,000 lbs

YOU KEEP IGNORING THE FACT

that most people only drive 500 to 1,000 miles a year camping. That the better diesel
mpg will never be driven drive enough miles to recoup that extra $10,000 dollars
spent to have a diesel engine.

Too many people confuse a Want for a Need.

[ShinerBock]

Double post

[ShinerBock]

32vld wrote:


comparing apples to oranges when you mention trim levels. talking in circles.

you cite numbers that apply to trucks that are driven 100,000 miles a year.
so these diesel engine trucks will reach the break even point in 1 year and
in the next 2 years of operation will save them money.

yet you ignore that most campers will drive 200 to 1,000 miles a year camping.
which does not even provide the opportunity to reach the break even point
after 20 years of driving.

todays gasoline engines go 300,000 miles. Chances are after 10 - 20 years
most times it does not pay to rebuild the engine because overall condition
of deterioration of the pickup/suburban to time and normal wear and tear the
truck one would be better to buy a new and better pickup that will have
more power, mpg, payload, towing, braking, handling, ride.

MPG is not the only factor in buying a truck.
30 mpg car or 5 mpg school bus, which is better.

bus holds 60 kids drive a 5 mile route, 5 mpg/60 students delivered.
bus used 5 gallons
30 mph the driving time is 6 minutes

car with driver can fit 3 students
car has to drive that loop 20 times, car drives 100 miles, used 3.33 gallons
car has to drive that 6 minute loop 20 times

Nope, trim level is an options that add value just like 4wd and engines. Whatever you got to tell yourself to make you feel better about your purchase. I guess you better tell all those half ton owners that they wasted their money on the gas engine upgrade because they will never recoupe it back and will likely spend over $5k in lifetime ownership over the base engine. While you are at it, you might want to go tell those Camaro/Mustang/Challenger owners that they wasted their money on a V8 over the V6 excuse they will never get it back even though it raises the value of their car. Heck, why stop there. You might as well go tell everyone who purchased a premium engine over the base engine in every vehicle that they wasted their money.

[Grit_dog]

goducks10 wrote:
OMG arguing about losing money on a truck on an RV forum. So lets go buy money sucking Rv's and lose more. :R

Sooo true!
Since I have a diesel maybe I should start telling all the gasser drivers with their depreciating RVs how dumb they are!! Lol


But I won’t because I don’t care and I don’t bash anyone for what they drive or own. Never have.

[Grit_dog]

We should change the forum name to DieselHaterz.com!!

[goducks10]

OMG arguing about losing money on a truck on an RV forum. So lets go buy money sucking Rv's and lose more. :R

[32vld]

ShinerBock wrote:


So everyone who spends more money on higher trim options, 4wd, or premium engine options gets no value out of it and it is just bad financial planning? Huh.

My company has over 500 trucks in our fleet across 120+ dealerships nationwide. We analyze the cost of every vehicle for future buying decisions and budgeting. The total cost of ownership difference between gas and diesel trucks is generally less than $2000 even those is states with high diesel prices such as our California. In locations where the price difference between gas and diesel fuel is lower such as our Texas locations, diesel trucks actually ends up being the cheaper option. Hence the reason I have said multiple times in the past for people to do the numbers for themselves because the fuel costs, taxes, resale values, and so on will not be the same.

People often ignore a lot of things like the factor that even though the oil/fuel filter change on my Cummins cost $150 and the oil change for a 6.4L gas engine like my truck is $80, they ignore the fact that the 6.4L requires the oil changed at 8k instead of the 15k on my truck. They also ignore the fact that by the time most expensive items like turbos and injectors need to be replaced on my Cummins at 350k, the 6.4L engine will be long past its life.

So lets put your argument to a gas half ton engine upgrade like going from a base 3.3L to a 5.0L which costs $1,995 up front. The 5.0L gets about 2-3 mpg worse fuel economy than the 3.3L and it has a higher maintainenance cost so that the cost of ownership keeps increasing the longer you own it. The same holds true for almost every gas engine option upgrade in half tons yet I never hear any of the half ton guys talk about talk about a payback or break even point like the 3/4 and 1 ton gasser guys do when trying to justify their purchase.

comparing apples to oranges when you mention trim levels. talking in circles.

you cite numbers that apply to trucks that are driven 100,000 miles a year.
so these diesel engine trucks will reach the break even point in 1 year and
in the next 2 years of operation will save them money.

yet you ignore that most campers will drive 200 to 1,000 miles a year camping.
which does not even provide the opportunity to reach the break even point
after 20 years of driving.

todays gasoline engines go 300,000 miles. Chances are after 10 - 20 years
most times it does not pay to rebuild the engine because overall condition
of deterioration of the pickup/suburban to time and normal wear and tear the
truck one would be better to buy a new and better pickup that will have
more power, mpg, payload, towing, braking, handling, ride.

MPG is not the only factor in buying a truck.
30 mpg car or 5 mpg school bus, which is better.

bus holds 60 kids drive a 5 mile route, 5 mpg/60 students delivered.
bus used 5 gallons
30 mph the driving time is 6 minutes

car with driver can fit 3 students
car has to drive that loop 20 times, car drives 100 miles, used 3.33 gallons
car has to drive that 6 minute loop 20 times

[ShinerBock]

32vld wrote:



Spending more money so you can resell used for more money is bad financial
planning. Years ago I was on a landscape forum where people pulled trailers
all the time.

Many were pro diesel. They could not see past that diesels had more torque.

They ignored that diesels cost more to repair and do maintenance.
They ignored that that the weight of their trailer, 48", 36", and 21" mowers, a back
back blower, line trimer, stick edger, gas cans weighed 2,000 lbs
They ignored that many of them of drove 5,000 miles a year to do their route.
They ignored that 90% of the driving was local low speed roads, not high speed
highways.

They ignored doing the math. They just recited diesels got better MPG.

Just taking the difference between the high purchase price for a diesel, diesel fuel
costs more than gas, combine these with driving 10,000 miles a year it would take
the diesel with better MPG to reach the break even point 10 years for the diesel
to paid back that higher purchase price.

How many people drive towing a camper, carrying a truck camper 10,000 miles
a year? I bet most people RV on the 500 - 1,000 miles a year.

A 100 year payback to reach the break even point is not worth it. To me a 10 year
payback/break even point is not worth it.

So everyone who spends more money on higher trim options, 4wd, or premium engine options gets no value out of it and it is just bad financial planning? Huh.

My company has over 500 trucks in our fleet across 120+ dealerships nationwide. We analyze the cost of every vehicle for future buying decisions and budgeting. The total cost of ownership difference between gas and diesel trucks is generally less than $2000 even those is states with high diesel prices such as our California. In locations where the price difference between gas and diesel fuel is lower such as our Texas locations, diesel trucks actually ends up being the cheaper option. Hence the reason I have said multiple times in the past for people to do the numbers for themselves because the fuel costs, taxes, resale values, and so on will not be the same.

People often ignore a lot of things like the factor that even though the oil/fuel filter change on my Cummins cost $150 and the oil change for a 6.4L gas engine like my truck is $80, they ignore the fact that the 6.4L requires the oil changed at 8k instead of the 15k on my truck. They also ignore the fact that by the time most expensive items like turbos and injectors need to be replaced on my Cummins at 350k, the 6.4L engine will be long past its life.

So lets put your argument to a gas half ton engine upgrade like going from a base 3.3L to a 5.0L which costs $1,995 up front. The 5.0L gets about 2-3 mpg worse fuel economy than the 3.3L and it has a higher maintainenance cost so that the cost of ownership keeps increasing the longer you own it. The same holds true for almost every gas engine option upgrade in half tons yet I never hear any of the half ton guys talk about talk about a payback or break even point like the 3/4 and 1 ton gasser guys do when trying to justify their purchase.

[32vld]

ShinerBock wrote:

32vld wrote:


Spending $5,000 more plus the added interest on the higher overall price for a diesel
to sell a vehicle for $5,000 more minus the added interest leaves one with getting
less than $5,000 back at resale.

spending more so sell for more 10 years later, incurring higher interest charges
is not smart financial planning.

I said more than $5,000 because you generally receive roughly 60-80% of what you paid for an upgrade back in resale. This goes for any option like the $10-11k high trim options, $3k on a 4wd option, $2.5k crew cab option, or even $2.5k going from the base gas engine to a premium gas engine. However, you never fully recoup that money spent on these options at resale and in some cases ,like 4wd and premium gas engine options, you end up spending more over the life of the vehicle due to lower fuel mileage and higher maintenance costs.

With diesels, you not only recoup 60-80% of the upfront costs like all the other options, but you also recoup it in fuel mileage as well. So unlike those premium gas engine options that cost $3-4k over the base engines and even more in the long run, with a diesel you get more power and most if not all of the up front cost will be paid back through fuel mileage if you keep it long enough or through fuel mileage and resale if you don't.

Spending more money so you can resell used for more money is bad financial
planning. Years ago I was on a landscape forum where people pulled trailers
all the time.

Many were pro diesel. They could not see past that diesels had more torque.

They ignored that diesels cost more to repair and do maintenance.
They ignored that that the weight of their trailer, 48", 36", and 21" mowers, a back
back blower, line trimer, stick edger, gas cans weighed 2,000 lbs
They ignored that many of them of drove 5,000 miles a year to do their route.
They ignored that 90% of the driving was local low speed roads, not high speed
highways.

They ignored doing the math. They just recited diesels got better MPG.

Just taking the difference between the high purchase price for a diesel, diesel fuel
costs more than gas, combine these with driving 10,000 miles a year it would take
the diesel with better MPG to reach the break even point 10 years for the diesel
to paid back that higher purchase price.

How many people drive towing a camper, carrying a truck camper 10,000 miles
a year? I bet most people RV on the 500 - 1,000 miles a year.

A 100 year payback to reach the break even point is not worth it. To me a 10 year
payback/break even point is not worth it.