Gas/Diesel Payload trade off

[diver110]

This parallels a post I just made (the answer to which was, bascially, hey dummy, get a 1 -ton). I get that diesel is a better performer under load (and I am not trying to start a gas versus diesel discussion, which I am sure has been beaten beyond recognition on this forum). But getting diesel does mean sacrificing a fair amount payload, 650 pounds in some configurations. Are the advantages of diesel so great, that it is better to make camper fit the diesel truck, of is it defensible to go with gas to get more payload.

[2BLAZERS]

diver110 wrote:
This parallels a post I just made (the answer to which was, bascially, hey dummy, get a 1 -ton). I get that diesel is a better performer under load (and I am not trying to start a gas versus diesel discussion, which I am sure has been beaten beyond recognition on this forum). But getting diesel does mean sacrificing a fair amount payload, 650 pounds in some configurations. Are the advantages of diesel so great, that it is better to make camper fit the diesel truck, of is it defensible to go with gas to get more payload.

My simple answer is TC plus towing more than a small utility trailer or jet ski equals diesel.

If you don't need the biggest badest Truck Camper and you are not towing get a gas motor. Just watch the numbers....

[Miami_Vice]

I get it: If you need a diesel, get a diesel.
But for those of us can go either way, consider this:
The gas V-8 has been perfected for 40 years.
How many of us were stuck with the old Ford 6.0 diesel, or with the early Duramx engines with fuel injector problems?
I have read on this site, that time and time again, many of us were stuck with repair bills on Ford 6.0 & early Duramax diesel engines for thousands of dollars.
If a diesel in a 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck is running perfectly than after 7 years of driving 10,00 to 12,000 miles a year, you will get your money back, in savings on fuel.
But if you were stuck with a big repair bill on a diesel you will never get your money back.
If someone is pulling just a truck camper and can go either way, gas or diesel, I can see how someone would go with gas because of all the horror stories they heard about bad diesel engines. I realize that Dodge trucks have a bullet proof Cummins engine but not all of us have a dodge trucks.
Miami Vice

[Buzzcut1]

Sleepy, If Wintersun lives along Big Sur south of Carmel he is right. No diesel south of Carmel or North of San Simeon in Big Sur. Other than that its all over down there.

[Bedlam]

The only place I have trouble finding diesel is in suburbia and metropolitan. In the country and along interstates, I have not had trouble stopping every 250 miles to refill my small tank. Maybe I'm just good at finding them since I have owned a diesel for over 30 years, but that doesn't explain why my DW can scoot around in her TDI for the last 10 years with out trouble and only drop a $20 in the tank when she stops.

[sleepy]

Wintersun,

I've been up and down 395... and posted pictures. I apparently never had any trouble getting diesel... but then I always fill the tank.

I can then feel comfortable... knowing that some where in the next 450 miles there will be a station with diesel pumps.

If I was buying $10 woth at I time I guess that it might be a problem... are you filling your tank? What is your range with a full tank of diesel?

I seriously doubt that there is a place in North America that doesn't have diesel... do you have any idea how many pieces of equipment run on diesel... how many commercial trucks run on diesel?

I have bought diesel in Monterey too!

California isn't that backward...

[wintersun]

Sleepy,

Even where I live I have to go 20 miles to the nearest station that sells diesel whereas there are 5 stations within 5 miles that sell gas. 20 miles means I burn 4 gallons of diesel driving there and back home to fill up the tank in the truck. Go along highway 395 in eastern California and most of the towns do not have diesel. We have to fillup when we may have half a tank of fuel in the towns where there is diesel so we can make it the rest of the way.

Three out of four gas stations in California, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Utah, and Arizona do not pump diesel. More than half the time I am buying fuel at a truck stop and that means traveling along the major interstates.

Easy enough to go to gasbuddy.com and for any trip from one town to the next check out how many sell diesel and where you have to drive to get fuel and how far off your route you have to travel.

There is also the pain of negotiating through the diesel truck stops and having to go inside with a credit card each time, which is not great with a camper but would be a major pain pulling a trailer.

The point is that there is no substantial benefit to having the diesel engine in a truck that will have at most a 6,000 lb. load. It is like the guys and gals with their Hummers and Land Rovers that they use to go to work and shopping - not much need for that locking differential and not much point to a 10 MPG vehicle for that type of use.

[racewave]

Also consider that newer (DPF filter) diesels may require ULSD fuel which may not be available in parts of Mexico and Central America. Any issues with availabilty of the enzyme urea fliud additives needed on some of the recent models?

[12V_Cummins]

I don't recommend diesels for anyone who doesn't know anything about them.

I've driven gas trucks, 6.0s 5.4s, etc and they all have just enough power for any truck camper. May not win a race, but where ya in a rush to?

[sleepy]

Wintersun... where is it that you go that you have trouble finding diesel?

I have been in 49 states, all over Canada over the last 10 plus years... it has been years since I wondered about diesel availability. I realize that 1007 nights traveling might not match your experience... so I'd like to know where diesel isn't totally available so that I can mark my maps.

As far as the price of a diesel powered truck... it's only money... some guys spend that much on fancy wheels, cow catchers, and oversize tailpipe extensions... and a fortune on chips and mufflers.

Folks... diesel availability is NOT a problem... buy the right truck the first time... you won't have to buy another or spend a loton make believe.

BTW... I get 450 miles on 30 gallens of diesel.

that ain't bad.

sleepy

[wintersun]

A diesel powered truck with a heavy camper makes for faster acceleration onto freeways and faster passing on steep upgrades and for better grade control on steep downgrades. For that you pay an extra $9000 for the trucks.

A gas powered truck with a large V-8 engine and 4.10 gears will perform nearly as well or at least well enough for what people actually need, not necessarily what people may want. There is an ego aspect to wanting the truck with the greatest payload or best tow rating or most powerful engine that is very seductive for many.

I bought a diesel pickup in part thinking that I would get greater range on a tankful of fuel. I was only partly right. The reality is that I need to be more careful to make it to the next station that happens to pump diesel than I did with less range and being able to fill up at any gas station.

If you need to tow a trailer that weighs more than 10,000 lbs. a diesel is very nice to have and if the trailer weighs more than 13,000 lbs. it becomes a need to have upgrade. Diesel engines are by no means needed for hauling a 6,000 lb. camper around the country.

[sleepy]

My trucks front axel gains 400 pounds with my very large TC on board.

I have averaged 15.1 mpg diesel over the 10 years that I've owned it. I've neve been parked on the side of the steep mountain roads with the hood up... like the vehicles you've seen...where they are waiting for a tow truck. (BTW... the Tow Truck will most likely be a diesel)

Hoods up along highways in the desert... no way, didn't have to turn off my air conditioner either.

I didn't have to "chip it" to get up the mountain.

I didn't have to add a oversized tail pipe extension to fool people into thinking that Ihad a diesel.

No special noise making mufflers... just to pretend that I had a real truck (diesel)

The cost of fuel has to be calculated with the large increas in fuel economy for the diesel... 30% or more.

No spark plugs to blow out or foul...

My trucks Duramax is paired with the Allison transmission... you won't see many of these in the shop...

So... the diesel engine with a very strong transmission costs 5% to 8% more when new... and is worth more at resale... with a 30% to 40% fuel savings over it's life or 300000 miles... and a much more dependable ride.

It boils down to... DO YOU HAVE THE MONEY?

If you can't afford it will you be the one to find any excuse to buy the cheaper option?

Often, the guy that screams the most about weight limits brags about how he always breaking the speed limits... how he has too or get run over! :B

If you can read the door post... then for goodness sake read the speed limit sign.

My system works for me... and when you take everything into consideration... it might work for you!

Sleepy

[Butch50]

serpa4 wrote:
I'm not giving up my Diesel, but it cost freaking .65 more per gallon in Columbia, SC.
3.65/13mpg=.28 per mile
2.99/8mpg=.37 per mile
I guess about 70,000 to 80,000 miles to pay for the $7K option of a diesel in fuel savings.
If you truck is a daily driver, diesel.
If your truck is only for camping, 70,000 miles for a non-full timer is a long time. I have about 68,0000 on my truck and it's pretty much used to haul my TC or boat only. So, it's been about 7 years and it hasn't paid for itself yet.

I wasn't going to post but I had to after this post. Where are you getting the numbers for a gasser? I just completed a 11,000 mile trip to Alaska and back and the first 2,000 miles was towing my boat into heavy head winds and storms and over the whole trip (which the camper was loaded on the truck all the time) I got a 10.88 MPG and this is hand calculated. So taking your cost of fuel I come in at
$2.99/10.88MPG = $.27 per mile

This is with a 2011 F350 4X4 CC LG KR SWR loaded and with a 10 2 cdse NL that weighs 4,000# loaded. This also included a lot of quick stops (to see the animals along the road) and then start up and a lot of pulling right up hill which starts shooting gas mileage down the tubes. For some reason most of the animals always were in the valleys and not on top of the hills how inconsiderate of them. I did not see a pass that I had any trouble pulling them and I didn't have any diesels with campers passing me. I was traveling the speed limit when conditions permitted it. A lot quick slowdowns for bad sections and then pick speed back up. Not the best thing for mileage either.

I have had diesels and yes duallies also over the years and this time I ordered a gasser as being retired it does not get driven that much so I decided a gasser this time, now if I was going to tow another 10,000# behind the camper than I would go with a diesel, but I have towed a 12,000# 5er with this truck also and this pulling the passes out west and it did fine, now at that time I was getting still in the mid 9s with it so the 8mpg stated above is with older gassers and not the newer breed.

But bottom line to the OP, get what works for you as you are the one that is going to pay for it and use it, get what you want just like I did and ever one else here has done.

[bighatnohorse]

diver110 wrote:
I was talking to a dealer who seemed like a straight shooter. He said the vast majority of truck/ camper combos one sees are over GVWR.....

At least he knew about GVWR. Many (most?) do not.
According to this post most axle failures occur at the pumpkin.

Ask yourself this "Would you be a backyard engineer ready to roll the dice on an axle failure?"

[racewave]

The front to rear weight distribution is important when trying to answer questions like this. For example:

My 2009 F-350 4X4 V-10 Gasser has a 5200 lb. front axle rating and a 7000 lb. rear axle rating. The GVW rating is 11000 lbs.

With the camper (8' S&S bitteroot hardside)loaded with my gear and full water tank it rolls across the scales 4900 lb front, 6080 lb. rear and a total weight of 10980 lb.

You can see that I am 300 lbs under the axle rating for the front and 920 lbs under the axle rating for the rear due to the center of gravity of the camper and having that CG just in front of the rear axle. My front to rear balance is biased more to the front than most camper truck rigs. It handles very well like this. Having a diesel in my particular situation would have produced an overloaded front axle.

Each rig will have a different result for front to rear balance based on truck camper combined CG.