Happijac TC jacks stop, no light

[bkenobi]

2007 NL 10'2QRR. tag says 2425# dry, but I beleive wet and equipment is closer to 3500# (haven't checked). HJ system with wired remote and 4500/4150 jacks.

When loading the camper from the ground (was dropped way down so a long lift), the HJ system stopped many times after around 10-15 seconds. The light on the remote would turn off and no response to button presses. After waiting a few seconds things came back to life. I did joggle the plug, but I beleive that didn't affect anything.

The dealer thinks it's the circuit breaker in the battery compartment. That's an easy change, but is that a reasonable culprit? I measured load on each jack when lifting and it was 4-5A. Total load on controller was over 20A. the breaker is rated at 40A, but the terminals have a fair amount of corrosion. Is this a good first thing to replace? If so, I'd just replace all 5 at the same time.

[covered_wagon]

Thank you for asking since it prompted me to clarify and rewrite my post above. I was in a hurry this morning.

My lubrication technique is not in the happijack insrtructions. It is something I learned on my own when my camper was about a year old as I had an electric motor start to bind and draw excessive load. It was in the lower bearing where moisture would build over winter and cause it to bind.

If you look closely at the electric motor portion you can see the white plastic cover with a small weep hole at the bottom. That hole is where you air nozzle or shoot 25 p.s.i. compressed air into. The plastic cup, as I call it, will slide off this way exposing the steel housing to the electric motor. Look close again and you will recognize the lobe at the bottom that houses the shaft end and lower bearing. That lobe is what traps and hold moisture and cause corrosion to that bearing. Even though the white plastic covers are fitted correctly they still allow accumulation of moisture inside.

Look closely again at the bottom of the now uncovered motor housing, you will see some very small weep holes. That is where you shoot 3 and one oil to lube that bearing. I spray enough to see it drip out and then while wiping off the excess I wipe oil over the rest of the metal housing with the same rag. this prevents an introduction of corrosion to the metal housing and helps get the plastic white cups back in place.

If I can remember I sometimes use a shop vac to help remove air in the cup thru the weep hole to help push them back on and in place again.

Last, I cover them for winter using freezer bags. held in place by stuffing shipping foam in between the jack and the camper body.

[bkenobi]

covered wagon wrote:
If the camper is left outside the moisture builds in around the lower bearing on the electric motor. That is the most likely place for the bind grind you hear. Because the white housings on each motor does allow a minute amount of moisture build and the bottom bearing nestled in an undrainable metal lobe housing, the moisture builds right there and rusts that bearing.

My jacks outside 15 yrs in PNW rain are still functioning because each year I cover the jack heads with a freezer bag after removing the electric motor cover (slides down off the motor with 25 psi air nozzle) and spray oil into the lower bearing. Use excess oil sprayed to wipe down elect motor housing and put cover back on. Good to go for storage.

Can you explain the lubrication process in a little more detail? I think you are saying you use a freezer bag around the opening at the top of the jack once the motor is removed and spray lots of lubricant inside so that it gets down into the drive screw area.

FWIW, these are the files that HJ sent. I also have a video of the logic board turning off in case anyone is interested. The board checks out so it's most likely due to the bad thermal fuses or the lubrication (both of which are being addressed).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xlur1z111cfbdov/AABhGfRWBPIW9uscguhc9Y9Ya?dl=0

[covered_wagon]

If the camper is left outside the moisture builds in around the lower bearing on the electric motor. That is the most likely place for the bind grind you hear. Because the white housings on each motor does allow a minute amount of moisture build and the bottom bearing nestled in an undrainable metal lobe housing, the moisture builds right there and rusts that bearing.

My jacks outside 15 yrs in PNW rain are still functioning because each year I cover the jack heads with a freezer bag for winter lay up. Part of my winterizing includes removing the electric motor cover (slides down off the motor with 25 psi air nozzle) and spray oil into the lower bearing. Use excess oil sprayed to wipe down elect motor housing and put cover back on. Good to go for storage with freezer bags for covers.

[bkenobi]

I have several pdf files but can't attach them. They basically are some schematics for the two series of jacks as well as maintenance procedure on the motor and disassembly instructions for removing the inner tube. Happijac said the following in email:

The ACME (4100, 4200, 4220 and the 4800, 4820 series) jacks need to have white lithium grease on all parts including the motor head, upper assembly and the top gears.



The BALL SCREW (4500 and 4600 series) jacks need to have TRI FLOW on the inner leg lift screw and white lithium grease on all other parts including the motor head, upper assembly and the top gears.



TRI FLOW is a spray on lubricant (pick up at any home improvement, auto supply or bicycle store) and sprayed on the extended lift screw of the inner leg. Clean the inner lift screw and then work the TRI FLOW back and forth several (20 plus) times to work the lubricant thru the ball screw.

The 4600 series ie 4600/4660 are the only models that have the quick release feature.

The 4500/4560 series and the 4600 series jacks are ball screw jacks.

The 4150/4160 series jacks have the ACME lift nut.

The 4800 jack is 3” longer and is a heavy duty ACME jack, it is zinc plated as well as powder coated on the outer tube.



All 60 series jack have zinc plating and powder coating.



The ACME jack rate at 1500 lb.s

The ball screw jack rate at 1900 lb.s

The 4800 jack rates at 2800 lb.s

My main question is, based on the text does it sound like I am expected to fully disassemble the jacks every 6 months to apply lubricant to the innards of the jack, or is it inspection every 6 months with lubrication of the motor and upper gears typically and only lubrication of the screw as needed.

I'm planning on calling Happijac today to see if I can get clarification. My local dealer says they typically don't do anything with the jacks unless there is an issue. Perhaps they aren't the best to speak to about TC jacks if that's the case.

[54suds]

and another crappi jack fail and rumor is the new ones arent much better

[bkenobi]

Now is the time to work on the jacks. I pulled the rear passenger jack first since it ratchets the most and runs slower than it's oposite. HJ sent several pdf fIles and text instructions but I'm a bit unclear.

I will post the email text and pdf when I get on my get to my laptop.

[bigfootford]

Sounds like you have things pretty much sorted out and Wjnn provided the correct description of what might be happening.

My camper weighs about 4200lbs loaded. Sticker weight is 2600..hahahaa. The old way many mfg weighed their campers was called wet weight... Water and propane. BUT, no fridge, mattress, oven, heater, water heater etc. In other words bare!

My HJ's, same model # pull <>35 amps when raising the camper. Any binding, groaning and there is more.

Do your Jacks sound like they are binding when you start to raise the camper? More so when lowered way down?

When I lower my camper way down and a leg shifts even less than an inch, especially a front one the slight binding will cause the assembly to groan. Couple this with the jack screw lube drying out or...rusting then all hell breaks loose.

The sound of the motors and gears should sound the same whether you have the camper down a foot or all the way down.

When you go to tear the jacks apart pay very close attention to the sequence of the washers and bearings. I use a 1/2" drill to run the jack screw in and out to clean the old grease etc out.

For photo posting it is pretty easy using this link! Save the link to your favorites:

http://photoposting.is-great.net/?i=2

Jim

[bkenobi]

Yes, thermal fuse (in my book) or breaker (everyone else apparently). I'd post a picture of the nasty content but not sure how on this forum.

[wnjj]

bkenobi wrote:
It's not the controller toming out. I've seen that (if you run the jacks for 1-2 minutes straight or set the remote down for a while). This issue is the power to the board I beleive because the light on the remote is off.

I replaced all of the breakers last night so I'm hoping it will fix things. As an engineer, I was curious about the condition of the old breakers. I openned the old ones up and found that the 40A used for the jacks had signs of significant history of arcing at the contact as well as lots of corrosion on the poles and a bit of surface corrosion inside the housing. With all that corrosion, the current seen across the contact could have increased the draw from the jacks above the 40A rating (guessing as I'm an ME not EE).

Your theory is good. Corrosion creates resistance which in turn causes voltage drop. Lower voltage on motors causes more current draw, aggravating the problem. Not only that, the heat created by the resistance directly affects thermal breakers if that’s what kind it is.

[bkenobi]

It's not the controller toming out. I've seen that (if you run the jacks for 1-2 minutes straight or set the remote down for a while). This issue is the power to the board I beleive because the light on the remote is off.

I replaced all of the breakers last night so I'm hoping it will fix things. As an engineer, I was curious about the condition of the old breakers. I openned the old ones up and found that the 40A used for the jacks had signs of significant history of arcing at the contact as well as lots of corrosion on the poles and a bit of surface corrosion inside the housing. With all that corrosion, the current seen across the contact could have increased the draw from the jacks above the 40A rating (guessing as I'm an ME not EE).

[covered_wagon]

When it stops working try pressing the all up and all down buttons at the same time for a quick reset. This is standard procedure for a wired remote like you and I both have. Also Be very thankful you have the old style wired remote and also the non quick release jacks. 🙂

[bkenobi]

Like I said, I haven't lubed the jacks. It's on my todo list. I replaced all 4 circuit breakers tonight. For such a simple job, it certainly was a PITA! 2 came off fine. The other 2... well, I got them replaced too.

[AnEv942]

Do you have a charge source connected when using jacks, either truck still running or shore power?
Especially lifting if I don't have a charge source jacks will stall after a few, quite a load. Very rare that I try without a charge source, don't want to drain the batteries 1st thing getting loaded or setting up camp. Going down not an issue.

[Artum_Snowbird]

bkenobi wrote:
I do have to watch to keep things on the ground. One of the rear is slightly slower. I usually watch the level on the bumper, the two rear jacks to keep them down, and under the cab-over to confirm the gap. I do have some times when clicking is an issue. That can usually be corrected by raising slightly before lowering again. I'm hoping lubricating the head will help since lubing the legs didn't make much difference.

Did you take the bottoms all apart as per the information in the truck camper bible at the top of this forum? The first one took me about half a day as I went slow. By the time I did the last one, it took about an hour to tear them apart, lube, and rebuild. I used an electric drill to run the screws up and down as I plied them with blue grease after I had them apart.

20 Amps is a big load and if you are cutting out, then in a few seconds going again, your overload relay might just be telling you to take it easy. It sounds like everything is working as it should, just take your time and don't push it.