Help Shopping: Half ton

[tragusa3]

History and background: I have a years experience towing my 3,000lbs dry TT throughout the Appalacians. I use my trusty Chevy with the 4.8liter / 3.42s. Back in 2003, we bought our first boat. At the time we had a Ford Ranger that couldn't possibly get the job done, so we shopped for a truck for towing at the time. The salesman steered us to the one we have. I wasn't educated on towing and didn't even know what gearing was. We've paid the price ever since. Don't get me wrong, the truck is capable, it just never did it with any "extra".

Aside from towing, we have LOVED this truck. Our biggest issue has been changing out the daytime running light bulb.

In the 11 years we've had it, life has changed. We now are a family of 4 and picked up the hobby of camping and travelling. I'm a school teacher and we have a goal of taking our boys on 3-4 long summer trips out West with the TT. This is where I believe our current truck is going to fail us. For one, 4 people in an extended cab. We'd live with that though if it towed better. I just don't think I've got enough truck for these long trips and the grades we'll come across out west.

I can currently climb anything in western North Carolina, but in 2nd gear at 3200rpm and 45mph.

The other concern we always fight is payload. When we load for local trips we always sag in the rear and from my rough calculations we're 4-500 pounds over. I'm 300lbs, wife is xxx, kids will each be 200lbs within the life of this new truck.

Upgrading TT? It is likely that we'll upgrade to something slightly larger, but we have a different philosophy than most. I truely don't see us ever considering anything heavier than 5,500lbs dry.

So, I'm not 100% stuck in the Chevy camp, but ours has been loyal enough to us that I'll stay loyal to Chevy unless there's a real reason not to be.

Our current truck has 270hp and 280torque. I don't know how to measure what's needed to make a significant change in my towing experience? The 5.3 liter of the last several years has seemed like a marginal improvement, but the new 2014 5.3 numbers are roughly 100 higher in hp and torque (355/387). 110 ft. lbs of torque tied to the new 6 speed transmission sounds like a leap beyond what we have. Is it?

A more specific question: I stopped at the dealership yesterday and found they had no 2014's on the lot, but were trying hard to push the 2013's they had. Even though invoice prices will remain the same, they claim that they can discount the 13's enough to give me a 9-10,000 incentive to take one.

Of course, that sounds interesting, but the 13's will not increase my hp and torque numbers as much (about half as much). Also, the fuel efficiency on the 14's is now 16/23, which would be nice for all the commuting I do the rest of the year.

Of course I'd like to save the money with a 13, but surely don't want to be disappointed like we have been with the 4.8/3.42. We'll keep this truck at least 10 years so I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish.

Considering a 3/4 ton with the 6.0? Don't get me wrong, it scratches the "man" itch alot better, but don't forget my trailer size. And, I tow for only half the miles I'll put on this truck, I'd feel wasteful to be driving that to work every day. The 2500 also starts to climb out of my budget, so I would have to go a few years older.

What would you do in my situation? Take a deal on a 13? Wait and spend more on the 14?

Sorry. Longwinded. That was a 2 cup of coffee post! 🙂

[EcoBullet]

Mine seems pretty ordinary to drive under normal conditions, but when you stomp on it, it goes from 60-90 pdq, although it does have a little bit of turbo-lag.

When pulling, it is just plain smooth. In the hilly terrain I've towed in so far, I've locked out 6th, and it pulls most hills in 5th, shifting to 4th very rarely, never revving over about 2500 rpms. This is based on my vast 180 mile towing experience with it so far. If it weren't for the truck being a little more bouncy than usual, I might almost forget the trailer was back there.

It is quite different than pulling with the 4 speed 5.3L, w 3.73 Chevy I had before. I towed in 3rd mostly, and it would downshift to 2nd on many hills, (even overpasses when on totally flat land) and rev to 4,000 rpms or so in order to keep speed. Pulling up to the Eisenhower Tunnel west of Denver was a 40 mph, 4500 rpm, 235 degree event.

At this point, I'm in love with the Eco. Comfortable ride, spacious cab, adequate power and payload, decent fuel economy (20-21 60 mph hwy, 18-19 72-74 hwy, 16-17 daily commute, and about 10 towing at 55-60)

[tragusa3]

Very interesting and makes sense. I wonder if the reduced boost at break in can be verified anywhere?

Between that, the "learning" transmission and the taller rear end, it could all certainly add up to my impression.

[mhsmith]

Almost forgot...Trans on most newer vehicles will not "feel right" right away. The computer(s) will "learn" your driving style and should be fine after the 1000 mile break-in.

[CKNSLS]

mhsmith wrote:

tragusa3 wrote:
That was payload for the specific truck. Good advice to get it equipped how I need it. We do keep vehicles a long time and I have a tendency to go cheap and then regret it.

I went back and test drove an Eco today. Was a little disappointed that the transmission felt like it was trying to keep me out of the power. I hope that would change with tow mode and max towing rear end. Any comment on that? Also drove the 5.0 and felt the same. Got to say, Ecoboost didn't feel like the freight train many describe. I didn't sense the torque like I expected...maybe it doesn't present itself without a load.

Don't get me wrong, it pulled hard when floored, but I expected 2000rpm to be all I needed for rolling hills unloaded. It wasn't, I had to press on the peddle some.

Maybe I just don't have the experience to have an opinion.

The Ecooboost engine and trans need around 1000 miles before towing. I was headed down the road with trailer on first trip when sometime after the odometer rolled over 1200 miles it seemed to "wake up". I have read that they have the computer "lock out" max boost until it reaches a certain mileage. Others have noticed it sooner and some a little later.

That's a great way to sell trucks...not have it perform like it should when you test drive it.....

[mhsmith]

tragusa3 wrote:
That was payload for the specific truck. Good advice to get it equipped how I need it. We do keep vehicles a long time and I have a tendency to go cheap and then regret it.

I went back and test drove an Eco today. Was a little disappointed that the transmission felt like it was trying to keep me out of the power. I hope that would change with tow mode and max towing rear end. Any comment on that? Also drove the 5.0 and felt the same. Got to say, Ecoboost didn't feel like the freight train many describe. I didn't sense the torque like I expected...maybe it doesn't present itself without a load.

Don't get me wrong, it pulled hard when floored, but I expected 2000rpm to be all I needed for rolling hills unloaded. It wasn't, I had to press on the peddle some.

Maybe I just don't have the experience to have an opinion.

The Ecooboost engine and trans need around 1000 miles before towing. I was headed down the road with trailer on first trip when sometime after the odometer rolled over 1200 miles it seemed to "wake up". I have read that they have the computer "lock out" max boost until it reaches a certain mileage. Others have noticed it sooner and some a little later.

[tragusa3]

I don't know the gears on the test truck either. It did not have the max tow package, so I figure they were not 3.73's.

[Kevin_O_]

tragusa3 wrote:
That was payload for the specific truck. Good advice to get it equipped how I need it. We do keep vehicles a long time and I have a tendency to go cheap and then regret it.

I went back and test drove an Eco today. Was a little disappointed that the transmission felt like it was trying to keep me out of the power. I hope that would change with tow mode and max towing rear end. Any comment on that? Also drove the 5.0 and felt the same. Got to say, Ecoboost didn't feel like the freight train many describe. I didn't sense the torque like I expected...maybe it doesn't present itself without a load.

Don't get me wrong, it pulled hard when floored, but I expected 2000rpm to be all I needed for rolling hills unloaded. It wasn't, I had to press on the peddle some.

Maybe I just don't have the experience to have an opinion.

I don't think the Transmission was trying to keep you out of the power. The motor makes max torque at 2500 rpms so it''s able to maintain speed while holding gears much longer. Also not sure what gears were in the truck that you test drove? That can make a huge difference too. The max tow pkg comes with 3.73's and 4.10's as a option. Towing my 33' 7500lb trailer I have never seen more than 2600 rpms on any hill with the cruise set between 60-65mph...

[tragusa3]

That was payload for the specific truck. Good advice to get it equipped how I need it. We do keep vehicles a long time and I have a tendency to go cheap and then regret it.

I went back and test drove an Eco today. Was a little disappointed that the transmission felt like it was trying to keep me out of the power. I hope that would change with tow mode and max towing rear end. Any comment on that? Also drove the 5.0 and felt the same. Got to say, Ecoboost didn't feel like the freight train many describe. I didn't sense the torque like I expected...maybe it doesn't present itself without a load.

Don't get me wrong, it pulled hard when floored, but I expected 2000rpm to be all I needed for rolling hills unloaded. It wasn't, I had to press on the peddle some.

Maybe I just don't have the experience to have an opinion.

[Kevin_O_]

donn0128 wrote:
OK lets do the math.
3/4 ton truck 100,000 miles=
1 brake job
1 set of tires,
1set of shocks
Zero tune ups
10 MPG going to work

1/2 ton truck
2 sets of P metric tires
2 brake jobs
1 set of shocks
Zero tune ups
Maybe 12 going to work

Hummm. I just don't see 12,000 dollars difference there? Maybe my math is off a bit, but the heavier duty truck will last longer all around because of the stronger components. Modern trucks if properly equipped will return fuel economy nearly identical . Remember to get the higher towing capacity you will still need the biggest motor in the 1/2 ton, same motor as used in the 3/4 ton. So where is this hugh fuel difference coming from?

My F150 Ecoboost averages 19 mpg on the highway, it makes 385hp and 430 lb/ft torque on premium fuel. Those are basically the same #'s as Fords 6.2L that will only average closer to 13mpg. We are only talking about a 5500lb trailer. The Ecoboost will pull that around all day in 6th gear at 1600 rpms and not even break a sweat.
To the OP, Take advantage of the A plan discount and get the F150 with max tow and HD payload pkg and you will not be disappointed....

[The_Texan]

Finally, someone that understands the newer ½t trucks.......When they have a 2000#-2500# payload, a GCVWR of 17+K#, there is NO reason to pull a popup or even a decent sized TT with an expensive, over sized ¾t truck.....

[CKNSLS]

To the OP-

A half-ton truck is ideal for the size trailer (5,500) pounds you are looking at. The Silverado with the 5.3 is a great daily driver and will deliver 20mpg solo highway.

YOU DON'T NEED A 3/4 TON-YOU DON'T NEED A ONE TON.

I am currently on my way home from a trip across the U.S. with my 5,500 pound ( 29 feet)travel trailer and my 2011 Silverado w/the 5.3.

Up to this point the truck has performed flawlessly.

I have towed my trailer 6,000 miles thus far. I have put more than double that on the truck doing sight seeing.

So much for the "you need a dually" crowd to tow a pop-up.

So-it can be done.

[Dadoffourgirls]

tragusa3 wrote:
I was just pulling numbers out of my head. Your logic seems more correct.

You also make a good point that the 2014 getting the 23mpg on the highway is not what I should expect with a different rearend.

I've been doing lots of reading on the max payload option with the F150's. I spec'd out an Ecoboost with max trailering and max payload. Payload of 2620 like I have it. That is exactly the sweetspot I was looking for!

Sat in the F150 at the dealership and did genuinely like the truck better than the Chevy.

Now the kicker...I didn't mention that I qualify for the "A" plan with Ford. My mother in law put in 30 years in Detroit. With that plan and the current incentives, plus my trade, it brings the purchase right down into a comfortable spot.

I really like the idea of the torque being available without running up the rpm's. A little cautious of the more technical engine though. More reading.

Does any other manufacturer have a package that brings payload over 2500lbs in a half ton? I didn't see it.

Make sure that the payload of 2620 is on the specific model you are looking at, and includes the options that you want. It may be a very lightly equipped truck.

If you are keeping your truck 10 years, and going to travel, you will want some of the options for comfort and convenience.

The 2014 Silverado Crew Cab is close to 2000 lbs based on 2wd/4wd and standard/short box.

[tragusa3]

I was just pulling numbers out of my head. Your logic seems more correct.

You also make a good point that the 2014 getting the 23mpg on the highway is not what I should expect with a different rearend.

I've been doing lots of reading on the max payload option with the F150's. I spec'd out an Ecoboost with max trailering and max payload. Payload of 2620 like I have it. That is exactly the sweetspot I was looking for!

Sat in the F150 at the dealership and did genuinely like the truck better than the Chevy.

Now the kicker...I didn't mention that I qualify for the "A" plan with Ford. My mother in law put in 30 years in Detroit. With that plan and the current incentives, plus my trade, it brings the purchase right down into a comfortable spot.

I really like the idea of the torque being available without running up the rpm's. A little cautious of the more technical engine though. More reading.

Does any other manufacturer have a package that brings payload over 2500lbs in a half ton? I didn't see it.

[Dadoffourgirls]

tragusa3 wrote:
Really quality replies guys. Thanks so much. My wife and I have been sitting here with our morning coffee talking through all the variables, and it's enough to drive you crazy.

First, Donn, I figured the math this way (not all inclusive):
- 3/4 ton at an average of 11mpg (towing and not)= 100,000/11 = 9091 gallons @ $3.50 = $31,818
- 1/2 ton at an average of 17mpg (realistic with the new 2014 chevy) = 100,000/17= 5882 gallons @ $3.50 = $20,587

Difference of $11,231

As you mention, there are other expenses that favor the 3/4 ton, that should be considered.

To the option of buying used. I would jump all over a nice, used 3/4 ton. Problem is, everything I see listed with <30,000 miles is right up close to the new prices. Everything that saves significantly on price has more than 100,000 miles. So in order to free up enough in the budget to cover the extra fuel expense and the commuter car, I'd have a vehicle that I wouldn't trust all that much for 6,000 mile trips out west.

I completely understand and agree that too small a camper and not enough TV can both take the fun out of a trip. But budgets are budgets, and when you start looking at $40k to a truck and $20k to a trailer, it is just too large a price for us.

In the end, I've got a paid for half ton with 85,000 miles (that I trust) and a trailer that we owe another $5k on. We're enjoying local camping for next to nothing. Hard to stomach $8-1,000 a month in notes for conveniences.

Some of you may have noticed my thread on whether or not to buy a class C. That's another perspective to wrestle with. We see good examples that fit our needs for the same price as most of the pickup truck options. We then sell our current truck for a gas sipping commuter, sell our current trailer, and come cheaper on purchase prices.

I don't know...round and round in circles. Enough to drive you insane. In the meantime, we leave next weekend for a week camping on the beach with no notes to pay off. Hard to beat that no matter how hard the truck is working. 🙂

I think your average mpg is off in both calculations. I do not think 11 or 17 are valid.

First, I would consider towing mpg a wash. Therefore, how many non-towing miles do you drive? What is your current avg MPG with current truck? What type of commute do you have? What type of driving cycle do you have?

My 2500HD with 6.0 and 3.73 has averaged 14 mpg for my ownership. However, this is my wifes truck, and I always improve the avg MPG when I drive it. Last year on a trip into the Michigan UP, it averaged 17.8 mpg (200 miles at 60 mph).

Second, the new 2014 Silverado is great. However, the V8 with 23 mpg is a 5.3 with the 3.08 rear axle. This puts the tow rating at 6600lb. I have heard of individuals averaging 21 mpg in the new Silverado.

As for discounts, there are great cash back rebates on 2013 1500's. Additionally, if you are a friend of a GM employee, they can share supplier pricing, and you get the rebates.

[OH48Lt]

If you're going to stick with Chevy, order a 2014 the way you want it if you're going half-ton, or a decent used 3/4 ton a couple of years old. Getting the 2013 half ton with that anemic engine is a bad choice, IMHO. If you want Ford, in used there are the occasional half ton EcoBoosts out there, and even the 5.0 isn't too bad. The 6.2 is a fuel eater. Don't even think about a diesel, from either manufacturer.