Illegal to work on your own car?

[maxwell11]

Illegal to work on your own car?


http://news.boldride.com/2015/04/gm-...illegal/76702/

This is why I intend to keep my CJ and avoid new cars. Such BS...

if this is true, maybe we need to buy an old junkier to drive, if the government decides you no longer meet their standard and sends a signal to your new truck that kills the computer.

[irishtom29]

bob_nestor wrote:
Reverse engineering of anything is generally considered an illegal activity.

Anything? Or those things still protected by patents or copyrights?

[Community Alumni]

ranierguy wrote:
Buy your own scanner. The codes are available through a google search and most higher end scanners ($150 and up) have the codes. I purchased a service manual from Ford and every code is listed with instructions on how to track down the exact point the problem is at and the repair.

The problem is that the manufacturers are burying more and more diagnostic information into in their proprietary modules. The information that you really need may be in a hidden in any one of the modules in the vehicle. To access this info you'd need a special reader / programmer that will cost a pretty penny. Some times you can only get these tools if you're a dealer or certified shop.

I have a Nissan that has a problem with the TPMS system. Unfortunately I can't diagnose the problem myself since all of the codes for the system are in the BCM. Last time I checked the programmer I would need was around $4k. I think I'll stick to the methods I've used my whole life; check my pressures and inspect my tires. That's free.

[Hannibal]

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:

Hannibal wrote:

If Ford would have offered the Focus in a Hybrid, I would have bought a union built Hybrid Focus in a heartbeat over the Prius. I can't help but wonder if it has to do with their licensing agreement. The Prius IS union made but, it's JAW and not UAW. To me, preferable to non-union Mexican made. I believe the Escape is union made in Kansas City?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/business/ford-to-use-toyota-s-hybrid-technology.html

Just so you know all of FCA Mexico plants are Union don't know about Ford and GM but our plants are. My bet is so are Ford and GM's

Don

WIBD! Didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up!

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Hannibal wrote:

If Ford would have offered the Focus in a Hybrid, I would have bought a union built Hybrid Focus in a heartbeat over the Prius. I can't help but wonder if it has to do with their licensing agreement. The Prius IS union made but, it's JAW and not UAW. To me, preferable to non-union Mexican made. I believe the Escape is union made in Kansas City?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/business/ford-to-use-toyota-s-hybrid-technology.html

Just so you know all of FCA Mexico plants are Union don't know about Ford and GM but our plants are. My bet is so are Ford and GM's

Don

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Hannibal wrote:

Perrysburg Dodgeboy wrote:
WTH!!! Clicky





"What GM, and even tractor companies like John Deere, argues is that you, as an owner, don’t actually own your car. Rather, you’re sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology. If it sounds ridiculous— it is. But it gets even more ludicrous." :h:h:h:h

As it currently sits, there are 13 (!) large automakers on the list supporting the DMCA. Want to know who they are? Of course you do:

General Motors Company
BMW Group
FCA US LLC
Ford Motor Company
Jaguar Land Rover
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz USA
Mitsubishi Motors
Porsche
Toyota
Volkswagen Group of America
Volvo Cars North America

Wow, well at least FCA is not on that list.....so far!

Don

Isn't FCA the third one down the list? The article is kind of misleading on a juvenile level. ECM software is proprietary so I can't take a wrench and rag to my Corvette. Nothing is true about that statement.

LOL WTH yep they are! sorry about that 😮

[W4RLR]

Just got a letter from Volkswagen of America. They want to update the ECM on my wife's Jetta Sportwagen. It will take them an hour or so. No charge, and I'll get the car washed and complementary drinks and snacks while I wait. So much for the evil manufacturers wanting to stick it to the consumer.

[bob_nestor]

jrp26789 wrote:

Paul Clancy wrote:
So you are saying someone can reverse engineer (copy) a company's software - change it and post it for free download and that's ok?

It's called freeware. Happens all the time.

No, it's called theft. Freeware is software that has been released by the author with no license restrictions. Reverse engineering of anything is generally considered an illegal activity.

[ranierguy]

Buy your own scanner. The codes are available through a google search and most higher end scanners ($150 and up) have the codes. I purchased a service manual from Ford and every code is listed with instructions on how to track down the exact point the problem is at and the repair.

[ranierguy]

It's interesting that no one has brought up if the holder of ownership of the software in a vehicle has an obligation to update and/or patch it. When you check with dealers, they can flash (rewrite) it, but at a cost. For my Ford pickup, I've been quoted prices for a flash of the PCM (main computer) of $50 to $650 (total time is about 12 minutes to do it). One dealer admits an issue with the idiot light being on has been patched, but I am the one obligated to pay for it.

Microsoft and Apple send out patches all the time, at no charge. Using the pricing I have been quoted, the cost is $300 to over $2000 per hour to fix Ford's issue. And none of them will guarantee it will correct the issue or if the truck will even start after the flash. And one dealer won't touch it because I own my own OBDII scanner and can read the codes without paying them $85 (the one that quotes the $650 before they knew I could scan the computer myself).

Luckily I live in an area that doesn't have emission testing. So I may end up using the Car Talk idiot light repair kit (black plastic tape over the light).

[Oldme]

Passin Thru wrote:
I'm a Master Mechanic and paper or no I work on my own vehicles. I don't care. Have wrenches will travel.

The point is how are you going to diagnose your problem if the factory will not allow anything but their tools to read the computer codes?

I have a garage full of tools.
With so much computer controlled items on vehicles if I can not access the fault codes then I am only guessing.

So much for the bailout of the auto industry.

[Passin_Thru]

I'm a Master Mechanic and paper or no I work on my own vehicles. I don't care. Have wrenches will travel.

[rjstractor]

Hannibal wrote:
If Ford would have offered the Focus in a Hybrid, I would have bought a union built Hybrid Focus in a heartbeat over the Prius. I can't help but wonder if it has to do with their licensing agreement. The Prius IS union made but, it's JAW and not UAW. To me, preferable to non-union Mexican made. I believe the Escape is union made in Kansas City?

I think you're right about where the Escape was made (it's no longer available as a hybrid). The Fusion hybrid IIRC uses essentially the same drivetrain as the Escape, and if Ford scaled it back a little for the Focus they might have had some serious competition for the Prius. Maybe that was part of the licensing agreement for the hybrid technology, no direct competition for the Prius... Really my only complaint about the Prius is that driving one is about as exciting as stirring a bucket of paint.

[Wes_Tausend]

rjstractor wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
There is a lot of misinformation being spread around on the internet about the Prius and other hybrids. The traction battery in a Prius weighs right at 100 lbs, is about the size of two car batteries, and can be changed out with hand tools. I'm not at all concerned about the traction battery in my Prius. The automatic transmission in a conventional car is likely to cost far more to rebuild and at less mileage.

I agree, most of the disinformation about hybrids is spread by those who don't know much about them. I got pretty familiar with the Escape hybrid my son is driving and once you figure out how the systems work there's no magic to it. Personally I'm not a big Prius fan but it has nothing to do with its hybrid system.

I 99% agree. Most of the disinformation about hybrids is spread by those who don't know much about them. Or about how earth operates either. Smart species don't purposely soil inside their den.

I am a Prius fan, but only because of the technology. The shape might be the slipperiest possible in practicality, but they are ugly. The look is growing on me a bit as I do admire "form follows function" too.

Recently, I repeatedly took my buddy to chemo and radiation with DW's Prius. It's a 400 mile round trip to the VA since the local funding was cut in the early 2000's. The little over-sized golf cart got as high as 55 mpg in no wind, appreciated even in this day of lowered gas prices.

On the other hand, this low-slung nosecone-with-wheels is worthless in deep snow. It never slips, just silently fades away until the driver is parked with his foot to the floor.

So in foul weather we use our 4x4 Ford Excursion. It once got the Sierra Club's Valdez award because of it's abysmal fuel economy, 13 mpg at best but more like 7 around town in winter.

They are each the best tools for the job... depending.

The Ford Escape used to license it's tech from Toyota. It was always a generation behind the Prius, but Ford might be caught up on their own now (doubt it) and eventually Toyota's current patents will run out.

A straight electric would likely be the easiest of all to work on in the driveway. That is the fear in the Big-3 board rooms, would be my guess. Who Killed the Electric Car?

Wes
...

[Hannibal]

rjstractor wrote:

Hannibal wrote:
There is a lot of misinformation being spread around on the internet about the Prius and other hybrids. The traction battery in a Prius weighs right at 100 lbs, is about the size of two car batteries, and can be changed out with hand tools. I'm not at all concerned about the traction battery in my Prius. The automatic transmission in a conventional car is likely to cost far more to rebuild and at less mileage.

I agree, most of the disinformation about hybrids is spread by those who don't know much about them. I got pretty familiar with the Escape hybrid my son is driving and once you figure out how the systems work there's no magic to it. Personally I'm not a big Prius fan but it has nothing to do with its hybrid system.

If Ford would have offered the Focus in a Hybrid, I would have bought a union built Hybrid Focus in a heartbeat over the Prius. I can't help but wonder if it has to do with their licensing agreement. The Prius IS union made but, it's JAW and not UAW. To me, preferable to non-union Mexican made. I believe the Escape is union made in Kansas City?
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/business/ford-to-use-toyota-s-hybrid-technology.html