Looking for some advice on Hybrids

[CamperKirk]

I have a 28' class C right at the moment. We really enjoy it. But, we havent got out as much the last couple years and thinking about downsizing. Plus, the gas millage is awefull and the thing is a huge handful in the wind. It also does limit us some with not having a truck to run into town. But, its in great shape and paid for.
So, what can you guys tell me about towing a hybrid. Gas millage has to be better and a lot less to maintain then my Ford chassis with a V10. How do these handle in the wind on the highway or semi trucks passing you or passing them? Just looking for some advice. I do have a full sized truck and have towed boats and pop-ups a lot in the past.

Thanks for any help in advance.

[gwh1bass]

I am on season 9 with my KZ Coyote 23CFK hybrid and still liking it. It has 3 queen size bunk ends and since we usually camp where there are no hookups, I have dual 20 lb propane tanks, 2 golf cart batteries for 12 volt power and fill up with fresh water before we leave to camp.

Usually pulling with 6 people in my Ford 6.0 diesel Excursion with all our gear and get between 12 and 13 MPG. No problems with this set up. While this isn't mountain country, we do have some decent hills in northern Michigan and the Upper Peninsula. The truck performed well also when we camped in and around Kentucky, Tennessee and West Virginia.

Previously I towed with a Chevy Avalanche 5.3 and while it got the job done, the engine did work hard.

Now that I have added a foam memory topper to my bunk, these old bones sleep great!

I also will get a bit of water leaking around the front bunk when towing in rain, but it is not anything that a piece of paper towel doesn't quickly mop up.

Set up, tear down in inclement weather - yup gotta deal with it, I can be real quick if need be.

[kvangil]

SoundGuy wrote:

Although the OP hasn't returned to this discussion to tell us just which "full size truck" he has if it's a V8 he can IMO expect much better than 8 - 10 mpg towing any full height trailer in the +/- 4500 lb range. With a factory UVW of 3725 lbs I'd guessimate your 23B runs somewhere around 4700 lbs loaded and ready to camp ... my current Freedom Express typically weighs ~ 4500 lbs and I consistently achieve 12+ miles to the US gallon, somewhat less of course when I'm negotiating significant uphill grades or fighting heavy headwinds. The fact your V6 Pathfinder tows your 23B "adequately" but only achieves 8 - 10 mpg is no doubt due to the fact that V6 engine is working so much harder than is my 5.3L V8 ... the OP, with his "full size truck" should expect no less with a full height trailer in this size category.

I somewhat agree with you, but as you say, without knowing what "full size truck" he has, one can only speculate. We have camping buddies with "full size" trucks and similar-sized TT's who get the same 8-10 mpg's. Too many factors involved to say for sure.

[babamartha]

We love our Kodiak 160 SVT. It has everything we need for long weekends with the grandchildren and we spend a month in Florida's beautiful state parks every year.

We've had ours a few years and haven't had a problem with leaks or condensation, except for in the awning.

The only thing that bothers me is the extremely poor gas mileage I get with our 2003 Ford Explorer. We get 8-10 MPG, depending on our average speed.

[SoundGuy]

kvangil wrote:
We can tow it adequately with our V6 Pathfinder (6000lb tow rating) and have not experienced any sway issues.

Expect your MPG while towing to be like any other full-height travel trailer. We get anywhere from 8-10 MPG.

Although the OP hasn't returned to this discussion to tell us just which "full size truck" he has if it's a V8 he can IMO expect much better than 8 - 10 mpg towing any full height trailer in the +/- 4500 lb range. With a factory UVW of 3725 lbs I'd guessimate your 23B runs somewhere around 4700 lbs loaded and ready to camp ... my current Freedom Express typically weighs ~ 4500 lbs and I consistently achieve 12+ miles to the US gallon, somewhat less of course when I'm negotiating significant uphill grades or fighting heavy headwinds. The fact your V6 Pathfinder tows your 23B "adequately" but only achieves 8 - 10 mpg is no doubt due to the fact that V6 engine is working so much harder than is my 5.3L V8 ... the OP, with his "full size truck" should expect no less with a full height trailer in this size category.

[kvangil]

Like mentioned above, hybrids aren't for everyone, but we've owned ours for a couple years now (coming from a pop-up), and it's a good fit for us. We like that it opens up to 27' of interior space without the weight of a 27' TT. Also, on our Jayco X23B anyway, the floor plan is wide open and there's a lot of interior space to move. We can tow it adequately with our V6 Pathfinder (6000lb tow rating) and have not experienced any sway issues. Condensation does happen on the bunk-ends, but if you came from pop-ups, it'll be familiar to you. We've had no leaks--not from the front bunk in driving rain either. Expect your MPG while towing to be like any other full-height travel trailer. We get anywhere from 8-10 MPG.

[Campfire_Time]

kknowlton wrote:
towing one with a front tented bed end in heavy rain will result in some leakage around the edges of the hinge, most likely in the corners. That seems to have been the main problem with this type of camper, and we had it as well.

This I would consider an isolated incident. In 13 seasons and 2 different hybrids, we have never had this problem. Although I do from time to time read about someone who has, it's almost always caused by tenting not tucked in properly or improperly maintained seals. I'd be willing to be bet that you had a warped front bunk panel. This happened on my mom's hybrid, which they only had for 2 seasons. It was bought back under warranty because they could never get it fixed. I can't recall what brand it was.

[kknowlton]

Without knowing the details, I'm guessing, but it seems you won't have a problem towing a hybrid. You will, however, notice a difference in your mpg between towing a HTT and a popup, and probably some difference from towing a boat as well (boats are more aerodynamic). It's not the weight, but the fact that the front of the trailer - whether a hybrid or regular trailer - forms a sail that catches all the headwind, that makes it a different towing experience.

A couple things about hybrids, from our experience: towing one with a front tented bed end in heavy rain will result in some leakage around the edges of the hinge, most likely in the corners. That seems to have been the main problem with this type of camper, and we had it as well. (Sometimes putting duct tape on those corners before the rain started - assuming we knew we'd run into some - helped minimize the leakage, which in our case was never major.) And, though I agree with Campfire Time about those ideal situations when the bed ends allow you to sleep facing the woods or a lake or some other idyllic spot, one drawback is trying to fit adult bodies on the couch or dinette when you arrive in the campground in a nightlong pouring rain and have to "turtle." 🙂 (Been there, done that - once.

[SoundGuy]

Campfire Time wrote:
I've never bothered with the pugs. Too much like work for very little gain, and what I've observed is that folks that use them end up in a full TT, like you did.

I always used PUGs with our Santa Fe popup and continued using the larger one for the two years we owned the hybrid, never would consider not using them as they made such a huge difference - warmer in cold weather, cooler in hot weather, eliminated any condensations issues, and kept the tenting so clean I never had to wash it. Coupled with Reflectix window inserts I could camp when it was snowing outside but still enjoy a 70F temp inside the camper. Obviously PUGs aren't necessary with a travel trailer (another benefit!) but I'd highly recommend them to anyone with any sort of camper with tenting which has an insulation factor of just about zero.

[Campfire_Time]

Soundguy, I was teasing a little. I get it. I rarely run into inconsiderate campers. But we did just have one a couple of weeks ago, they had an outside bar/entertainment center and had music going until 3:00 AM. They were talking real quiet otherwise, I just don't think they realized they had it too loud. The next night they turned it off by 10:00.

Man, you guys had your challenges with that trailer!

Regarding that storage space, you must have had a strange unit. Our previous 17' had a front passthrough. Our current one does not but it does have a huge cargo bay. I can fit a broom in it. We've never had to store anything on the floor, or use storage tubs. I take that back, I bought this really cool grill for the camp fire called an "Automatic Chef". It's in a big case and I store it on the floor when the trailer is parked. It goes in the bed of the truck when we travel.

I've never bothered with the pugs. Too much like work for very little gain, and what I've observed is that folks that use them end up in a full TT, like you did. The important thing is that you found what works for you and what you're comfortable in.

[SoundGuy]

SoundGuy wrote:
that are spacious and comfortable yet don't have any of the drawbacks of a hybrid. JMO.

Campfire Time wrote:
Sleeping in your boxed in trailer with the AC going, very nice. Sleeping in a hybrid with the bunk end flap open over looking Lake Michigan during a full moon, priceless. 😉 Being on our 3rd season with our second hybrid, the previous having owned for 10 years, I just can't find any of these "drawbacks" you speak of.

Chuck, I couldn't disagree with you as we're all different so whether a hybrid is suitable or not really depends on one's expectations. We personally do prefer to lock out the rest of the world late at night when sleeping as we've just been in just too many situations when our next door neighbours turned out to be inconsiderate neighbours who didn't seem to understand the meaning of "quiet time" ... hard walls and a little white noise from a fan or the A/C solve that problem entirely. Our TrailCruiser had but one hybrid bed but guess who had to set it up all the time while SWMBO was inside, nice and dry while I was outside getting soaked! Guess who had to install the PUG cover and Reflectix so we remained warm in cold weather and cool in hot weather? The hybrid bed mattress had a 60/40 split so it could be folded for storage and guess who would slip into that mattress seam every night? Guess who had to put it away before traveling? We were fortunate in choosing a hybrid with permanent jack 'n jill bunk beds for our two boys, otherwise like most hybrid owners our boys would have ended up sleeping on the trailer floor those many times we turtled. Regardless, when turtling my wife and I did sleep on the large U shaped dinette converted to a bed but it sure was uncomfortable with lumpy sofa cushions serving as the "mattress". That rear bed design also resulted in a fair amount of cargo storage space below the lower bunk bed but most hybrids don't offer this advantage. They also don't have the large front passthrough cargo storage compartment as do most travel trailers, the result being that many hybrid owners find it necessary to store "stuff" in tubs that travel on the hybrid's floor. In contrast I don't store anything on our travel trailer floor, not in our previous 24' triple bunk bed travel trailer, not even in the small 19 footer we now have. The list goes on but of course it all comes down to personal preference, ours clearly being in favour of the travel trailer. 🙂

[Campfire_Time]

Not sure what kind of mileage you get now, but I would not expect all that much better being that you'd be towing a box down the road. Typically, depending on tow vehicle, it could be anywhere from 8-12. I got 12 with my old 17' hybrid and a Trailblazer, I get 10 with my current hybrid and my Sierra. The good part is, whether you chose a hybrid of full TT, maintenance is cheap, and is a piece of cake compared to a driveable RV. As far as towing, again it's a box. Towing a full height travel trailer is not the same as towing a boat or pop-up. That said, with the right WD hitch and proper adjustment a travel trailer will tow just fine.

SoundGuy wrote:
that are spacious and comfortable yet don't have any of the drawbacks of a hybrid. JMO.

Sleeping in your boxed in trailer with the AC going, very nice. Sleeping in a hybrid with the bunk end flap open over looking Lake Michigan during a full moon, priceless. 😉 Being on our 3rd season with our second hybrid, the previous having owned for 10 years, I just can't find any of these "drawbacks" you speak of.

That said, clearly hybrids aren't for everyone. If you don't care for sleeping in tents and/or pop-ups, I recommend not looking at hybrids. For the same reason as SoundGuy said, if you buy it and it's not your cup of tea, you might end up taking a bath on it.

[bikendan]

Gas mileage will be slightly better.
8-10 mpg average with a gas tower, diesel a little better.

Using a good WDH with integrated sway control, you should have no problem towing.

[SoundGuy]

CamperKirk wrote:
So, what can you guys tell me about towing a hybrid.

I do have a full sized truck and have towed boats and pop-ups a lot in the past.

Certainly others may disagree but having made the mistake of going first to a hybrid from a popup then to a travel trailer I'd recommend you just go straight to a travel trailer unless you have a specific reason for needing a hybrid. You haven't specified just what "full size truck" you have but assuming it's even a 1/2 ton most are capable of towing at least a 6000 lb travel trailer. Assuming that to be the case the only other reasons I can think of for justifying a hybrid over a travel trailer is if you have some sort of limitations that would prevent storing a travel trailer OR simply that you much prefer to sleep under tenting and are willing to put up with all the vagaries of a trailer with tenting. Obviously this also depends on how many you expect to sleep in this trailer but if it's just an adult couple there are plenty of TTs in the 20' to 25' range that are spacious and comfortable yet don't have any of the drawbacks of a hybrid. JMO.