My TT - Love & Hate relationship

[zackyboy3rs]

34ft Palomino Sabre 31qbds

Love the floor plan

Hate that it bounces & shakes

I have used the x-chocks on both sides. I have attempted to use stablizer manual jacks on the slide out sides.

It has electric jacks & they stink. Would switching to manual scissor jacks help? Could I install scissor jacks & use both?

[lawrosa]

Ok Ill add more links and vids if anyone cares.

I guess there are some that may try to lift opposite corners and do not understand how to stabilize/level.. Possibly no all are competent.


Like I said I only use the jacks for front to back level/stabilize and the jacks are placed evenly against the frame. Not one higher then the other trying to compensate for side to side.

Side to side I put blocks down and pull the low side of trailer wheels up on the blocks..


Here is another company. Article, instructions, pic...etc






From RV.net.


http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/23075623.cfm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2GIAU-0UqM


http://www.riecotitan.com/products/groundcontrol.php#base

http://www.riecotitan.com/flyers/GROUNDCONTROLInst.pdf

[2112]

Firstly, you can't compare a TT frame to a bridge. The span and trusses of a bridge are designed with a HUGE margin of safety. The TT frame is designed to be as light as possible and still be functional.

Secondly, the video you provided 100% condredicts your techique. Your technque is backwards. The auto leveler adjust the front landing jacks to LEVEL front to back before any other pads come in contact with the ground. At no time are any of the pads placing a large moment load on either frame beam. The load is being adjusted evenly throughout the whole process. Your technique applies a large moment on the frame when you are raising the front jack after the rear is blocked up.

I didn't want to get into a pi$$ing contest with anyone. My post was to point out to a newbie with a long 33'+ trailer that this is not the way to either level or stabilize a long TT. They may try it and wonder why their new TT is swaying uncontrollably on the way home.

[lawrosa]

Doing as you say definantly won't help it, and will make it worse. My main concern would not necessarily be a permanant bend in the frame. But rather the damage that more than designed temporary flex could impart.

OK.. Im just being logical is all.

For example. A 6 point leveling system as show here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAKrSWSRsQo#t=236

Is this any different than my 4 point leveling system on my 24 ft TT?

As you know in the vid all jacks are attached to the frame. And If I took that 5th wheel in the vid and parked it on un level ground the jacks would lift one side of the frame over the other. Front to back, side to side or whatever.

So in summary, if I install the above system to my travel trailer, I assume my frame will bend from what is being suggested? It would be assumed that the manufacturer of that system would have oodles of warranty claims against them for bent frames.


Here are the installation instructions for the 4 and 6 point system as shown in the vid...

http://equalizersystems.com/images/shared/uploads/files/TRAILER%20Auto-Level%20Installation-%20Troub...


Hopefully with the above info members here can see a better point of view on the subject..

[Huntindog]

lawrosa wrote:

2112 wrote:

lawrosa wrote:

I lower the front of the TT as low as it can go then place two jacks on the rear frame. Then I lift the front up to just above level then place two on the front frame. Then lower.. All four corners are now fully supported...

This is the easiest way to bend a LONG frame. You may get away with it on a short trailer.

Can you link any documentation that a travel trailer frame will bend that way?

Your comments seem absurd IMO as well as others that posted the same comments..

And as I stated longer trailers should use two more at the center.

Again this process does not lift the wheels off the ground. If the frame did flex you are still supported by the axles anyway.....

Do you know how bridges are built???? Steel is made to flex... Show me a TT with a bent frame from this process...

Possibly someone from a TT sales dept told you this and it was taken for gospel???

IDK all my opinion is all....

It is not an area that I want to be a beta tester on. But frame bounce is so well known, that it existence is pretty much irrefutable. Doing as you say definantly won't help it, and will make it worse. My main concern would not necessarily be a permanant bend in the frame. But rather the damage that more than designed temporary flex could impart.
As I said previously... Convincing you is likely a lost cause. But letting others know the risk of doing as you recommend might not be.
Did you know that TT frames are designed to support most of the weight by the wheels? In fact most if not all manufacturers camber the frame to counter act the frame flex. It is done with the wieght being supported by the wheels as the design... Doing as you say would reverse this... It simply can't be a good idea.

[lawrosa]

2112 wrote:

lawrosa wrote:

I lower the front of the TT as low as it can go then place two jacks on the rear frame. Then I lift the front up to just above level then place two on the front frame. Then lower.. All four corners are now fully supported...

This is the easiest way to bend a LONG frame. You may get away with it on a short trailer.

Can you link any documentation that a travel trailer frame will bend that way?

Your comments seem absurd IMO as well as others that posted the same comments..

And as I stated longer trailers should use two more at the center.

Again this process does not lift the wheels off the ground. If the frame did flex you are still supported by the axles anyway.....

Do you know how bridges are built???? Steel is made to flex... Show me a TT with a bent frame from this process...

Possibly someone from a TT sales dept told you this and it was taken for gospel???

IDK all my opinion is all....

[2112]

lawrosa wrote:

I lower the front of the TT as low as it can go then place two jacks on the rear frame. Then I lift the front up to just above level then place two on the front frame. Then lower.. All four corners are now fully supported...

This is the easiest way to bend a LONG frame. You may get away with it on a short trailer.

[Ron3rd]

Keith Haw wrote:

TWolf wrote:
I also found out this week after owning the trailer for 2 years that you are not supposed to fill your fresh tank with water when the stabilizer jacks are down. One of mine bent and the dealer claims that is why.

That's wild! Never heard that one before. Think I'd be finding a different dealer to work with.

Keith

Never heard that either, I've filled the tank with my old trailer and my new Rockwood Windjammer with the stabs down many time.

[Huntindog]

TWolf wrote:
With my POS Rockwood from Forest River I found that if I don't use blocks under my stabilizer jacks and run them all the way down, I have less movement. With the blocks that measure about 12" high, I had more movement. When I get it back from repair again, I will try some of all of your suggestions unless I get a rid of first. I also found out this week after owning the trailer for 2 years that you are not supposed to fill your fresh tank with water when the stabilizer jacks are down. One of mine bent and the dealer claims that is why. I will post more on another tread.

I've been doing it since I bought it new. No issues.

[Keith_Haw]

TWolf wrote:
I also found out this week after owning the trailer for 2 years that you are not supposed to fill your fresh tank with water when the stabilizer jacks are down. One of mine bent and the dealer claims that is why.

That's wild! Never heard that one before. Think I'd be finding a different dealer to work with.

Keith

[TWolf]

With my POS Rockwood from Forest River I found that if I don't use blocks under my stabilizer jacks and run them all the way down, I have less movement. With the blocks that measure about 12" high, I had more movement. When I get it back from repair again, I will try some of all of your suggestions unless I get a rid of first. I also found out this week after owning the trailer for 2 years that you are not supposed to fill your fresh tank with water when the stabilizer jacks are down. One of mine bent and the dealer claims that is why. I will post more on another tread.

[Ron3rd]

Huntindog wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:
Putting the jack under the axle is the only thing I found to greatly lessen, but not eliminate the movement.

Putting the jack under the axle will eliminate the tire flex that is contributing to the shake, but not the frame flex that the springs are still allowing.
Put the jacks under the frame just in front of the tires for the best result.

I agree. But I had an old scissor jack (maybe 25 years old) collecting dust under the workbench. Had to spray it with WD 40 to get it going again. Putting it under the axle helped a bunch, but ideally supporting under the frame is the best solution; I just don't have that many jacks!

[Doug33]

Ron3rd wrote:

I considered the X-Chocks but read posts like yours where it did not solve the problem. The Chocks help solve "front to back" motion only and do nothing for up and down motion which is very common on the long trailers. Some of the up and down movement is even in the tires. Putting the jack under the axle is the only thing I found to greatly lessen, but not eliminate the movement.

Yeah - I just stick them under the axle, but I don't put too much upward pressure on them. I don't want to overstress the axle in any location. The jacks just help to reduce the up/down flexing in the tires.

[Huntindog]

Ron3rd wrote:
Putting the jack under the axle is the only thing I found to greatly lessen, but not eliminate the movement.

Putting the jack under the axle will eliminate the tire flex that is contributing to the shake, but not the frame flex that the springs are still allowing.
Put the jacks under the frame just in front of the tires for the best result.

[Huntindog]

lawrosa wrote:

The video would only be realistic for a seasonal sited TT. Nobody is gonna lug all of that along.

As for your suggestion of only using 4 jacks... It is a really good way to bend the frame and ruin the TT. One may get away with it on a short TT with a real stout frame... Other than that, No way Jos'e.

Really? I never suggested to lug cinder blocks around.. I am showing how to do it with the jacks I linked to..

How are you going to bend the frame?
What makes a stout frame and a non stout frame?

I have a 24ft travel trailer. 2003 coachman Spirt of america and my frame is not bent after 11 years..( Plus its not like its lifting the wheels off the ground.

And if you do have a longer trailer use 6 jacks and placed as shown in the video..

Other then that, then yes way jose'... Its the only way to have a sturdy non wobble trailer with easy set up...

Again I am showing the OP how I do it.. The stock scissor jacks just wobble because they are too long after they are cranked down...

And IMO best value for 31 bucks instead of hundreds for those other type jacks..

Let me try again.. (As if I can convince you. LOL)

I use these jacks from walmart..
The first problem is the title for the video that you linked to. Something about the correct way as if that gives it a air of authority.

I lower the front of the TT as low as it can go then place two jacks on the rear frame.Here is the second problem. Lowering the tongue as far as it will go can be almost two feet on my TT! Then I lift the front up to just above level then place two on the front frame. Then lower.. All four corners are now fully supported.. In my case this could have the tires dangling from the frame... In case you haven't noticed, frame bounce is the problem we are trying to address.. It occurs when the TT is supported by the stabilizers in the usual locations, but the frame in the middle which is supported by the tires flexes because that is not a solid support at all. The tires and springs will flex. Yes I know, another set of the old cheap manual tripod style jacks will fix that as well... But many of us including myself cut our teeth on those and have since moved on. I no longer look forward to getting down on my knees in the dirt/mud/gravel etc. to stabilize my TT. So the powered equal pressure jacks and manual drill driven jacks (in front of the axle) are my weapons of choice for this job.

I get zero bounce and shake. ( I support on Wood blocks )I don't have zero movement, but vey close to it, and when the ground settles in a few days, and the TT starts to shake, I can fix it in about a minute by pushing a couple of buttons... Your way would mean starting all over.

In my mind, I have a very acceptable compromise between ease of setup, and takedown and stabilization.. These things are called travel trailers and have wheels for a reason... Portability. They were never intended to have as solid a foundation as a cabin or house.